Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: FlagMarshal.com MarshalsGuide.com Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Marshals Forum

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 29 Aug 2004, 18:47 (Ref:1080759)   #1
HiRich
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
London
Posts: 299
HiRich should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
750 Trophy, Silvestone 28/08

I'm wondering whether any of you guys & girls were working on or around the startline for this race on Saturday?

It appeared to be a right dog's dinner, with the cars held on the line for a very long time (which neither the 7s or 500s like). Whether cause or effect, we lost a few cars. I'm sure you can appreciate that there were quite a few 'disappointed' drivers back in the paddock later. Standing in pit lane, I couldn't see much more than a few waved arms. None of the drivers seemed to know what had actually happened, so in the interests of trying to find a better way, can anyone give me some clues?

I know threads like this can sometimes cause problems, but this isn't my aim. If you would prefer, please PM me.

My interest, by the way, is that I'm with one of the teams. Rather than just treat it as one of those things (again), I would like to come up with some recommendations to "those that decide these things".

Thanks
HiRich is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 19:08 (Ref:1080779)   #2
Ian Sowman
Veteran
 
Ian Sowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Birmingham
Posts: 5,968
Ian Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I was commentating at Becketts and my startline colleague Alan Hyde conveyed very well the amount of arm-waving that was going on. Would a green flag lap for these cars been of benefit?
Ian Sowman is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 19:44 (Ref:1080812)   #3
HiRich
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
London
Posts: 299
HiRich should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not in the normal sense, Ian. None of the 500s have on-board starter motors, and running slowly oils up the plugs, so any time spent stationary causes problems. Two stops on the line guarantees trouble. The normal rule is to get us away as quick as possible.

We have been considering doing the 3/2/1 minute contdown from the assembly area (where at least you have the crews on hand to get recalcitrant cars going), which has proved fairly effective. So there is a question whether we go straight from Assembly to the grid for the five second board (good, but not much chance for one slow starter to get into position without holding everything up), or go straight into one quick green flag lap (more time to get into position, but still risks of oiling).

I didn't hear what Alan said as commentary didn't seem to go to pitlane.
HiRich is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 19:53 (Ref:1080821)   #4
chezza
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
England
Shrewton, Wiltshire
Posts: 6,441
chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I was on woodcote gap, covering the grid for the start.

Somebody stalled and needed a bump start, but as they wanted to get the cars away he was pushed off the grid, unfortunately another couldn't engage a gear and then a couple of others had problems. In total we had to push 5 off the grid. Sometimes these things happen and i don't know if anything can be done about it though.
chezza is offline  
__________________
"Miss Stroplash" - The Hooker - BGP 2009
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 19:54 (Ref:1080823)   #5
Ian Sowman
Veteran
 
Ian Sowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Birmingham
Posts: 5,968
Ian Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What about a rolling start?
Ian Sowman is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2004, 21:01 (Ref:1080875)   #6
sydney herbert
Rookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
United Kingdom
Nr.SILVERSTONE
Posts: 37
sydney herbert should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
in my day we had a dummy grid so we were push started to the startline and as the last car got in position it was flaged off.
sydney herbert is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 20:56 (Ref:1081819)   #7
John Newman
Subscriber
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Near, (but not quite) Towcester
Posts: 165
John Newman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I suspect the timekeepers again! It must only take a few minuites to produce a grid sheet for a restart with their so called advanced computer systems, but it seems to take an age.
Yet they and the Scrutineers are the only ones who are PAID for thire efforts!
John Newman is offline  
__________________
Newm
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 21:14 (Ref:1081840)   #8
Mini681W
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
England
Dunstable
Posts: 9
Mini681W should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
One of the cars had difficulty in starting in the assembly area and arrived after most if not all of the cars had already been gridded up. The driver then made his way to his grid position near the front of the grid (I think it was the second row) and then stalled.
Because of going straight in to a race start, it was deemed to be not safe to start the race with a stalled car right at the front, so the start delayed board was shown. It was after this that other cars had problems. If races are to started without green flag laps, any cars leaving the assembly area not in their grid position should start from the back of the grid. If this had happened at the weekend the race could have been started without cause for concern and the staller could have been bump started or removed from the grid safely.

Last edited by Mini681W; 30 Aug 2004 at 21:15.
Mini681W is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 21:21 (Ref:1081849)   #9
Ian Sowman
Veteran
 
Ian Sowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location:
Birmingham
Posts: 5,968
Ian Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridIan Sowman should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
John Newman - restart? What are you on about?

This was the first start.
Ian Sowman is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 22:27 (Ref:1081904)   #10
Mini681W
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
England
Dunstable
Posts: 9
Mini681W should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Mr Newman may be reffering to the races that were red flagged and not the race in question. The re-gridding of these races did take a long time, but with the large grids and not many start line marshals it was always going to be difficult. I think they did a good job under the circumstances.
Mini681W is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Aug 2004, 23:53 (Ref:1081956)   #11
chezza
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
England
Shrewton, Wiltshire
Posts: 6,441
chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well said Mini681W, blimey thats more difficult to type than coxy!!

The start of the trophy race did take a long time but the marshals can only get the cars off the track so quickly, and with so many having problems it took a while, especially when drivers are arguing against the decisions that were being made.

The restarts did take a long time and it wasn't helped as the startline marshals were stopping the pack halfway through or near to the back rather than stopping the leaders as they came round to the grid. This meant a lot of shuffling of cars.
chezza is offline  
__________________
"Miss Stroplash" - The Hooker - BGP 2009
Quote
Old 31 Aug 2004, 12:15 (Ref:1082531)   #12
HiRich
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location:
London
Posts: 299
HiRich should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thanks for the feedback. To summarise, the car late on the grid (which then stalled) should really have taken up a position at the back (whether or not those were the rules). The start was (for safety reasons) delayed, which then led to the 'cascade failure'.

I also think that part of the problem was that we got our own people going, then went to assist the push starters. They were already out of place and as a result lining up on the grid took longer than necessary.

Sydney, I like the idea, but as we mechanics aren't allowed near the grid nowadays (and by the time we've run from Assembly to pitlane we're too knackered to push anyway!). However, I think we could use that in a procedure where:
- All cars are started in the Assembly area, before anyone is allowed out on track. Ideally this is under the 3/2/1 minute boards, where 3 mins is "push start", 2 mins is "mechanical start, all mechanics retire"
- Release the cars in grid order pairs (I'm thinking like the chappy in the Superbikes, waving each row away)
- Anyone not able to leave when waved off must start from the back.
- Drivers to pair up in positions before the final corner, so marshals do not need to quiz their gridsheets too much.
- Grid marshals to be asked not to be too fussy about exact positioning. Lights/flag marshals asked to "just get rid of them as quick as you can".

Chezza, thanks for your help on the grid. I recognise that this could be seen as 'one of those thing'. Trouble is it happens rather too often. That's entrants' fees wasted, you guys frustrated, and CoCs & organisers thinking we're a bunch of pillocks. If we can come up with a smoother procedure, convince the drivers to follow it, and make the marshals & starter aware of it (and the consequences of fannying about), we can get all the cars away cleanly and get on with the racing.

Any more comments, suggestions, thoughts on what happened?
HiRich is offline  
Quote
Old 31 Aug 2004, 13:04 (Ref:1082582)   #13
Tick Tock Man
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 41
Tick Tock Man should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by John Newman
I suspect the timekeepers again! It must only take a few minuites to produce a grid sheet for a restart with their so called advanced computer systems, but it seems to take an age.
Yet they and the Scrutineers are the only ones who are PAID for thire efforts!
Sorry John, I'm not sure what you're getting at here? What else do you suspect the timekeepers of?

Yes, it does only take a few minutes to prepare a grid for a restart. As Mini681W said, both the restarts were full grids of 34 that would have taken much sorting out as they would not have been in the correct order when they arrived back at the grid.
Tick Tock Man is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tgf Gives His Trophy To Rb Bononi Formula One 53 25 Aug 2001 17:53
BTCC SILVESTONE jvilleneuve2000 WTCC & European Touring Car Series 3 7 Jun 2000 20:26
Silvestone- BTCC jvilleneuve2000 Trackside 3 1 Jun 2000 10:42
SILVESTONE 500 jvilleneuve2000 Trackside 13 15 May 2000 22:37
silvestone 500 FIA GT/ALMS jvilleneuve2000 North American Racing 1 8 May 2000 21:47


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.