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Old 5 Apr 2005, 05:14 (Ref:1270447)   #1
Wrex
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Under/Over performing

I was just reading a thread commenting on team mates. We are only 3 races in, so little can be valuated accurately, but some patterns are emerging. Sometimes though drivers are ether flattered by poor performing team mates, or looking second hand because of team mates star performances.

Its not always a case of leading driver being a star, the loser being below par.

My assessment to date :

Renault : Good example here. Alonso leads Fisi any way you measure it. One could jump in and say Alonso is doing well, Fisi poorly. IMO, Fisi is meeting expectations, while Alonso is over-performing.

Toyota : Again Ralf looks bad here, but personally I think he is doing well, its just that Trulli is doing exceptional.

Williams : Nothing to add here. Neither over or under-performing so far, but are meeting expectations.

Redbull : I'm giving both drivers the thumbs up here. The car is obviously improved, but to me so have both drivers.

Ferrari : Rubins on par at the moment, with Michael under-performing from the standard we have come to expect.

BAR : Cant say I have been impressed either way here. Sort of the opposite to RBR. Car went backwards, and the drivers are a little off also.

Sauber : Villenueve is under-perfoming, Massa over-performing. Unfortunate for JV, but the great drives from Massa are highlighting further the problems JV is having. Hard to pin the blame on the car when your team mate is making lemonade from lemons.

McLaren : Both drivers hiting the average button for me. Neither is showing their true potential, but neither is falling off either. Need to see more.

Jordan and Minardi : Sorry, dont even know who is driving for them these days.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 06:44 (Ref:1270467)   #2
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Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Wrex

Jordan and Minardi : Sorry, dont even know who is driving for them these days.

I think that's slightly harsh - Narain Karthikeyan's driving of the Jordan marks him out as someone who will move up the ranks in the future, in my opinion.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 08:00 (Ref:1270548)   #3
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Not meant as disrespect (but can see how it reads that way), more personal ignorance and less than usefull TV coverage.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 08:15 (Ref:1270555)   #4
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Ah! Ok, misunderstood slightly
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 08:50 (Ref:1270576)   #5
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I agree WREX. It's funny, everybody talked about what a combination Kimi and Juan would be and so far they have done little to get excited about in what is perhaps the fastest car in the field.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 08:56 (Ref:1270583)   #6
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I hope McLaren can find that missing qualifying speed and re-awaken Kimi, because at the moment he just isn't driving the team forward in the way that one expects. If that last piece of the engineering puzzle is found, and they are able to qualify as well as they race, then there will be the motivation to do something exceptional - which he is undoubtedly capable of. So far we have not been granted the titanic team-mate battle which the Woking team promised to deliver, and this is a big shame.

Elsewhere - DC is actually living up to his capable experience tag, for which I owe the eating of a nibble of humple pie. Nice one.

Massa quietly getting on with making poor old J look pretty shabby.

Michael Sch just hasn't found his gear - but the Sakhir qualifying was a pretty dtrong marker that things are about to change (provided Bridgestone decide to get going). Rubens, on the other hand, is a delight to watch - MS has a double battle for once I do believe... he must get the car working and thereby start challenging the field, AND he does have a strong challenge from Rubens. Rubens will have a much better qualifying start than Micheal next race too.

Trulli is thoroughly excellent - well deserved podiums. Vs Ralf who looks worse than ever to me.

It is a bit harsh to criticise BAR, in my view, the car is terrible - slow and unreliable.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 09:35 (Ref:1270610)   #7
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I think it comes down to expectations really.

For me, being a staunch Mark Webber fan I'd have to say that a 5th, DNF and 6th is a little disappointing..under the unusual circumstances this season has started off with. 3 months ago however, if I'd been told of his first 3 races with williams' results I'd have been stoked for him...

Very interesting to watch the battles of Heidfeld VS Webber, Montoya VS Raikkonen, Ralph VS Trulli and Massa's ass whooping of JV though. I was really looking forward to these battles during the off season and I haven't been disapointed yet!

Renault and RBR get the biggest thumbs up for me so far and the biggest thumbs down would have to go to BAR Honda I guess... Back to 2002/3 for them...

Really happy for DC though, always liked him but I expected him to have an embarrassing year this year... Much more than a nibble of Humble Pie for me I think

Anyway, Hi and great forum you guys have here... I've been lercking for a while now but have obviously only just decided to step and say G'day..

Can't wait for Imola
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 09:39 (Ref:1270611)   #8
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Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Wotcha Adam. Always happy to say hi to a fellow Webber fan. I draw the line at G'day though - damn, said it.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 10:22 (Ref:1270645)   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrex
BAR : Cant say I have been impressed either way here. Sort of the opposite to RBR. Car went backwards, and the drivers are a little off also.

I agree with all your driver statments execpt we haven't really seen much of the bars on the tv coverage other than to see them blow up so it's hard to really tell, that and the fact Sato had only contested 2 out of 3 races.As for the car going backwards i don't think they ever went forward , more the other teams made a poor effort last year and couldn't afford to be embarrassed again this year.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 11:05 (Ref:1270686)   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrex
Sauber : Villenueve is under-perfoming, Massa over-performing. Unfortunate for JV, but the great drives from Massa are highlighting further the problems JV is having. Hard to pin the blame on the car when your team mate is making lemonade from lemons.
Haven't commented on JV before and I'm not turning this into a JV bash but if you just take a look at JV's CV, it reads as follows;

1996 - P2 - 78PTS
1997 - P1 - 81PTS
1998 - P5 - 21 PTS
1999 - Not even classified
2000 - P7 - 17PTS
2001 - P7 - 12PTS
2002 - P12 - 4PTS
2003 - P16 - 6PTS

With the exception of his first two years in F1, JV has been on a consistent downward spiral.

So going back to the original statement that JV is under-performing, I have to say that I for one am not surprised.

I think Massa was probably under-rated by most.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 12:33 (Ref:1270743)   #11
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Dixie Flatline should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Harsh that JV has been on a "consistent" downward spiral.

The 1999 BAR was a dog of a car that was unreliable to boot. Neither Villeneuve nor Zonta had much of a chance to score points in that car.

The 1998 Williams was inferior to the 1998 McLaren and Ferrari. Villeneuve's thenteammate, Heinz-Harald Frentzen, scored 15 points in 1998.

There's been a debate over whether Button beat Jacques in '03. JV had the worse of the reliability, but Button had a good season in a poorly performing car.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 16:04 (Ref:1270929)   #12
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Jordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJordi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Massa was under-rated, including by me.

But Jacques is not over yet. Some forum members would already have fired him but Sauber is not a forum member, and Jacques has said he is a lot more confident with the car. He was a lot closer to Massa's times in Bahrain, and while I expected him to be ahead of Felipe, it is an improvement over the first 2 rounds.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 16:59 (Ref:1270978)   #13
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teammates so far;

Alonso over Fisi; relentlessly quick with fewer mistakes
Trulli over Ralf; much the same reason, particularly qualifying
Montoya over Kimi; up until the injury, anyway
Coulthard over Klien; experience = points
Heidfeld over Webber; by just a bit, but Nick less ragged
Barrichello over Michael; getting more from less so far
Massa over Villeneuve; obviously
Button over Sato; doesn't mean much with 0 points
Karthikeyan over Monteiro; the little Indian does not look out of place
Albers over Friesacher; hard to tell, you never actually see them during a race

I also think Massa was a bit underrated, similar to Klien.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 17:50 (Ref:1271017)   #14
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maximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmaximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamsmith
I agree with all your driver statments execpt we haven't really seen much of the bars on the tv coverage other than to see them blow up so it's hard to really tell, that and the fact Sato had only contested 2 out of 3 races.As for the car going backwards i don't think they ever went forward , more the other teams made a poor effort last year and couldn't afford to be embarrassed again this year.
I agree and I would go as far to say that Button was impressive in Bahrain as that car was awful by many accounts, and he looked very racy in the 3 laps he lasted in Malaysia.
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Old 5 Apr 2005, 20:23 (Ref:1271161)   #15
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Alonso - About where he should be, maybe a little better.
Fisi - Stinking, what gives?
Trulli - Above expectations.
Ralf - A little slow.
Kimi - Fine, but nothing spectacular yet.
JPM - Underwelming.
Webber - How I expected.
Heidfeld - How I expected, but I think he's a slight overperformer.
MS - Under performing.
Rubins - Has had a lot of difficulties that haven't been his fault, still underperforming a little though.
Massa - Over performing.
JV - Under performing.
DC - Over performing.
Klien - Over performing.
Button - As expected.
Sato - As expected.
Karthikeyan - Over performing.
Monterio - As expected.
Minardi drivers - Dunno.
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