Daytona Prototypes?

H16 · 8 Feb 2002, 20:41 (Ref:212583)

So the current Grand Am formula isn't cost restrictive enough, now they want what is virtually a spec (awfully nervous around that word aren't they?) coupe with a low powered engine? Forgive me if I find this most distressful. I mean, ALMS has its problems, but at least the cars are very diverse and a big 6 liter Ford can swipe it with a turbo Audi, but this is going to be unreal.

Grand Am is really hitting the toliet on this one, in my opinion. Maybe I will like it better when I see it, but I have never been a fan of spec racing.

Es Nes · 8 Feb 2002, 21:17 (Ref:212643)

"this is not a spec series" LOL

Speedworx · 8 Feb 2002, 21:31 (Ref:212666)

Its a series for people/teams who couldn't make it in ALMS.

SL · 8 Feb 2002, 22:12 (Ref:212717)

It must be a case of peace among men and a set formula agreed for worldwide sportscars. The money is there, the cars and people there, all it needs is a common goal.

SL

Dr. Austin · 8 Feb 2002, 22:59 (Ref:212760)

One set of rules for the whole world would sure make it easier for everyone and that is what Don Panoz tried to do with the ALMS/ELMS/PLMS series'. But it didn't work. Too many people want too many different things.

The simpler the rules, the more likely they are to be adopted by everyone. Forget all the air restrictor and sliding weight stuff. We nedd a series for big, fast cars that all run the same displacement and weight. We almost had it with the 3.5 Group C cars, but it made so much sense that it sacred the F-1 guys and Bernie and Max had to pull the plug on it.

**Aysedasi** · 9 Feb 2002, 19:48 (Ref:213024)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
We almost had it with the 3.5 Group C cars, but it made so much sense that it sacred the F-1 guys and ****** and *** had to pull the plug on it.

I'm sorry Doc, but we can't allow profanity on the Sportcar/GT forum.

Es Nes · 9 Feb 2002, 19:55 (Ref:213029)

LMAO!

MaxSport · 10 Feb 2002, 06:21 (Ref:213534)

When I went to Daytona last week I had doubts about this Daytona Prototype thing ever happening.

Given than the FIA and ACO are supposedly on the same page concerning rules, maybe I just didn't want to see G/A muddy the waters with a new class that would draw prototype teams to G/A and keep them from racing in ALMS events. With different rules we wouldn't see a Dyson or Doran at Sebring or PLM, much less in France in June.

Then I got there and found that most all I talked with think it is pretty neat and that they were going to do it. The cars look great and will be cost effective. The NASCAR (and IRL) association is good sponsor bait.

The only negative I saw was the fact that GTS is being turned into "Trans Am cars with headlights". The coming GT Supercars (Porsche Carrera GT etc.) would turn similar times to the new DPs and only add to the show.

Maybe it is OK to have an American series that is on its own.

If the FIA and ACO can agree, then they will set rules for international sportscar racing and the ALMS will be N.American stops for international cars and teams.

However, if the FIA SCC decides that cost effective Daytona Prototypes are the way forward, it will be interesting to see just 2 Bentleys and a couple of Panoz Batmobiles at LeMans '04. Without privateers from the FIA, the ACO won't have much of a prototype field.

This is getting interesting. Most here (on the 10/10ths Indycar forum) doubted that CART would switch to the IRL rules as I predicted. It is early days, but these new cars from G/A are causing a great deal of interest here in the states. Might it go farther than that?

KM

Dr. Austin · 10 Feb 2002, 22:16 (Ref:213792)

I think that the best thing we can do is just wait and see what the cars are like. They might be trash and they might be great. Obviously, I'de prefer a one-set-of-rules-for-everyone scenario with no holds barred, but the economy just won't let that happen. Maybe a strictly cost controlled series will be completely viable. And remember, there was only one GTP car in 1982 for most of the year, but look how that class eventually flourished. Give this thing some time and it could be good.

If the cars are big, fast, loud and look like rocket ships, I am there.

Es Nes · 11 Feb 2002, 08:08 (Ref:213941)

why didnt they include turbos in their plans?

fausto · 11 Feb 2002, 16:51 (Ref:214116)

The cars may be interesting, even if "low-tech", personally I like coupes more than open cars....
Just one thing sounds curious, the rules specifies a range for the main dimensions of the car. This amount to 2 inches for wheelbase and width, 5 inches for lenght and 1 and 1/2 inch for the hight, thus restricting the designer approach to aerodynamics and event packaging.....

KC · 11 Feb 2002, 17:14 (Ref:214136)

I don't know. Isn't an oxymoron to have spec prototypes?

I am with Dr.Austin on this. We need the Formula Libre approach that CanAm was back in the 70s. Allow a max displacement of 8.0 liters, allow turbos, allow whatever. Turn the engineers loose. Lets see some 1000 hp endurance machines take to the track. Turn the drivers loose with the balls to handle mega-powerful full ground effect machines on the best road courses all over the world.

paulzinho · 11 Feb 2002, 20:35 (Ref:214227)

What happenned to CanAm?

KC · 11 Feb 2002, 21:53 (Ref:214265)

Porsche came and slew the McLaren dragon. The cars were pretty crude by today's standards. Most were overpowered, underbraked, and overdriven. But, they created a class of driver that could do anything in a car. Imagine stepping out of a 1000 hp car into any other race car with roughly half the power. It probably felt like a snail and probably felt like it handled like the best car in the world.

paulzinho · 11 Feb 2002, 22:06 (Ref:214272)

When did it cease to be?

**ghinzani** · 12 Feb 2002, 13:28 (Ref:214526)

Quote:

Originally posted by paulzinho
When did it cease to be?

Depends on how u classify it but the last competitive season was probably 84 when Michael Roefrom Eire won it... it struggled on into 85, I think the hapless Indycar driver Rick Mackowatvitz (or summat similar) won it in 85 but it had become virtually club racing... they may have tried a spec formula in 86 as I recall.

Es Nes · 14 Feb 2002, 22:00 (Ref:216106)

has anyone seen the new pictures for two new closed top cars at dailysportscar.com? all ive to say about them is:

my god, those things are fugly!

paulzinho · 14 Feb 2002, 23:00 (Ref:216182)

Looks Ok, I've seen worse but then again I've also seen better.

MaxSport · 15 Feb 2002, 12:39 (Ref:216431)

I think they look great. Americans like GT-40s,Saleens and McLarens. Current LMPs look like F-1 cars with fenders. These new GT-Prototypes are already attracking many buyers. Some are current teams in G/A and others are teams who aren't currently involved in the series.

No matter what happens with ACO/ALMS/FIA and their new rules, Daytona Prototypes should make for an interesting national series.

KM

Es Nes · 15 Feb 2002, 17:31 (Ref:216566)

well the gt40 was fugly too. and those models look nothing like the saleen or mclaren f1.

KC · 15 Feb 2002, 20:29 (Ref:216702)

I see some merit in the designs from Brumos and R&S, but I also think that a spec car series defeats the purpose of sportscar racing. The SCCA already runs a dozen spec sports car series for sportsmen but we are talking what is supposed to be the top ranks of auto racing.

Every sanctioning body is on a quest to reduce costs right now because they have not taken care of business when it was good. Racing is and always will be expensive, will never generate more funds than it spends in and of itself. Does the sportscar fan really want to see severely limited protoypes that all look the same or all have the same motors racing one another? Sure the racing will be probably be closer, but the teams with the budgets will always beat the poor teams. So in effect, the racing will stay about the same, but the creativity will be cut out. Why not just start racing SCCA Toyota Sportsracers? The racing is close, the show is good, and it is cheap compared to what is being run now. The reason why is because the diversity of sportscar racing makes it what it is. I have no problem with creating a spec class to race and allow teams to build themselves up and move into faster classes, but I don't think a spec prototype class will draw crowds to trackside or impress TV viewers or bring in sponsors.

FastJoel31 · 18 Feb 2002, 01:41 (Ref:218254)

Does this wipe out the GT class also? If it does, then maybe some of the teams would switch to ALMS.

Lee Janotta · 18 Feb 2002, 05:24 (Ref:218297)

I've got to say, I like the chassis approach. Cuts down on downforce, adds some weight, puts more of the race in the hands of the drivers. The engine rules are a joke, though. It'll be like overweight Pro Spec Racer. If they turned the engine builders loose, and we got barely restricted 4.0L turbos, 7.0L pushrod V8s, and 6.0L V-12s, _then_ we'd really have something. It'd be very Can-Am-ish, which _can't_ be a bad thing. And it'd certainly bring out the best drivers. If you can drive a 1000-hp prototype, you can drive just about anything.

It might be interesting to eventually have something like that replace the LMP900 class at LeMans, while the 675 class evolves into more of a be-fendered F1 with lots of 2.0L turbos. If relative parity could be maintained between such disparate classes, it could make for some _very_ interesting racing. Jeez... Can you imagine a little 2.0L roadster screaming down Mulsanne, with a huge 7.0L monster GTP hot on it's heels? The stuff of legends, IMO...

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