Ford/Jaguar looking hard at ACO

[gttouring]

all speculation aside
aren't these sets of priorities (for racing venues) sound bonkers? no WRC?
oh make the argument that a company liek GM has no real WRC presence and Toyota is no longer in it
but GM has some presence in Fuji heavy industries- in subaru
and Toyota well we knoe they left in a small disgraceful series of engineering misinterpretations
FORD and the FOcus to quit WRC is just wierd- and to go WTCC? with what? the saloon focus?

the chinese FORD F1 connection is actually a huge move- as this market (china) is going to be the largest ever in one swoop when the doors open up- Ford is right on this one, ofcourse are they going to dedicate more money or rather better time and resources to actually win to appeal to the Shanghai markets?
oh because the Focus WRC (a huge selling car the focus, especially i would believe in china when it goes to sale) makes no sense to keep in public view?

[FIRE]

Originally posted by jhansen
If Ford was smart they'd cancel the F1 program, and continue with WRC. Then add a two-pronged sportscar program with a prototype and GT/GTS program. They'd get WAY more bang for their buck.

No, I would choose this:
WRC with the Ford Focus, DTM or ETCC/WTCC with the Mondeo and a Jaguar GTP project.

But with Ford doing F1 and Mazda going sportscar racing I think there's not much chance on a LMP/GTP project for Jaguar. Ford will probably put all their money on F1. Maybe Sam Li (owner Team Veloqx) can fund a private Jaguar GTP project when the Audi UK R8's are put away in a garage.

If I am right the Mazda LMP2 project is for ALMS, so is this project paid by Mazda N. America?

[tblincoe]

i can see mazda racing an LMP1 project primarily in the ALMS and jaguar primarily racing in the LMES...

but i highly doubt this will happen, i can see jaguar just racing in WTCC because ford is not the smartest with their racing programs

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by slicktsax
i just read this at www.lmsr.net
"off the record comment....Ford/Jaguar looking hard at ACO after F1 turmoil...2006 is possible GTP project...far from confirmed but in talks..."we have certainly noticed the growth in ALMS/LeMans attendance and the television packages. We are evaluating our racing options...Jaguar has a solid history in sportscar racing. It is our understanding that Sebring/LeMans now have the the reach of seven F1 rounds at 1/10 the cost.""
i hope they do join the alms/lemans. it would be interesting to see what their design would look like and what their engine will be

This message is no longer on www.lmsr.net. So maybe they are not allowed to state it, or it just was not true...

[Adam43]

Originally posted by 917Addicted
Sorry for being pessimistic, but "history doesn't grant you victories".
If they miserably failed at F1, why would they conquer sportscars, knowing the fact that Audi (who is committed fully to it) is there (and could be joined by Porsche)?

I didn't mean they would automatically win at Le Mans. I meant that if they went back there it has to be (an attempt) for overall wins (not class wins).

I think that they didn't succeed in F1 for several reasons. They didn't belong there. This resulted in a less than fully committed approach all across the company. The people who ran Jaguar only really got free tickets to GP, it was unrelated to anything in the real factory in Coventry (or even the pretend one in Halewood ).

On top of that the resources and budget required for F1 are on a different scale than Le Mans. So they would need to spend less to be competitive at Le Mans.

Of course it is not that simple, because of the scale of F1 coverage it is easier to justify in some ways. Le Mans is once a year, mainstream TV, newspaper and other media coverage is poor for Le Mans.

However Audi have justified this. They get a lot out of winning at Le Mans. They spend, but they don't spend F1 budgets. They are competitive. However, it can be argued these are easy wins. This is where the companies need to be brave. The same project, but with decent competition could reap benefits for all. OK they might not win all the time, but the races would be more memorable, the coverage may be better and it is better to win against a stiff opposition than a weak field. I think Audi know this and want it.

Jaguar can 'buy' into that. They may not win, however if they invest properly they may win. They will need to spend less than F1, but they still need to be fully committed. Can they be fully committed. I hope that if they are competing in the correct arena (competing for overall wins at Le Mans) then the desire to do a proper job will be greater (and great enough).

I will end on history though (albeit it simplistically). Jaguar in the early '80s was a shambles. Today the factories are on a four day week. It is a different problem, the cars are top quality now (especially the big proper Jags), but they aren't selling. Back in the early '80s Sir John Egan came along and turned them around. While he was doing this he supported Tom Walkinshaw, who thought the XJS would make a good touring car, then he saw Le Mans, he realised it was the ultimate for Jaguar. They went back, they didn't automatically win, it was a three year project that turned into a six year project. People worse Jaguar T-Shirts, Jaguar caps, we cheered. It was their arena even when they didn't win. Where was that sea of green at Grand Prix?

[JAG]

'I will end on history though (albeit it simplistically). Jaguar in the early '80s was a shambles. Today the factories are on a four day week. It is a different problem, the cars are top quality now (especially the big proper Jags), but they aren't selling. Back in the early '80s Sir John Egan came along and turned them around. While he was doing this he supported Tom Walkinshaw, who thought the XJS would make a good touring car, then he saw Le Mans, he realised it was the ultimate for Jaguar. They went back, they didn't automatically win, it was a three year project that turned into a six year project. People worse Jaguar T-Shirts, Jaguar caps, we cheered. It was their arena even when they didn't win. Where was that sea of green at Grand Prix?'

Lets hope the Jaguar management take the company back to Le Mans and give the company a bit of pride back.

[917Addicted]

Yes let's hope so (I didn't mean I didn't want Jaguar back at sportscars), even though this are different times, and Audi, IMO, is much stronger than Porsche was in the 80's (because it's a big company, unlike the small specialist manufacturer that Porsche was (and is)).
What I want is that people understand that victory at LM is not granted (see Toyota at 99). Do the guys at FoMoCo know this? Hum... I have my doubts...

(but let's see a Jag back at LM at 2006 or 2007, no matter what )

[Adam43]

Originally posted by 917Addicted
What I want is that people understand that victory at LM is not granted (see Toyota at 99). Do the guys at FoMoCo know this? Hum... I have my doubts...

Back to the original point, I'm not sure Ford are close enough to returning Jaguar (or anyone else) to Le Mans for this mis-calculation to be an issue. If they do nothing short of full commitment will be needed.

[fazzaz]

I could find no source for the quote which started this thread, the one now apparently withdrawn. Does anyone know who allegedly made the statements cited?

[JAG]

www.lmsr.net

'I was asked to remove a quote concerning Jaguars future racing plans until the F1 situation is resolved. "It is one of our options. We are taking a hard look at all programs and the returns. You will see involvement by one of our group in the near future."'

[FIRE]

Originally posted by JAG
www.lmsr.net

'I was asked to remove a quote concerning Jaguars future racing plans until the F1 situation is resolved. "It is one of our options. We are taking a hard look at all programs and the returns. You will see involvement by one of our group in the near future."'

If they ask to remove such gossip I think they are serious looking to LM.

[JAG]

'If' Jaguar return to racing it will quite obviously be at Le Mans. Ford have (hopefully) learned from their mistakes.

[slicktsax]

yeah being asked to remove it definitely means they are looking to the ACO.

[Adam43]

Definitely? I'm afraid it is far from definite, but is a hint at best.

And JAG, 'hopefully' indeed

[Nordic]

The outcome of Jag F1 is now known, Its to close http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/3665810.stm . It wont be rebranded as Ford and the whole thing is for sale.

I hope this does not mean Jag won't be back to LM for some time to come.

The release does only talk about F1 and is very negative about that, hopefull the positive press release will come out in a couple of weeks once the unions have got over the Browns lane factory stopping car production (maybe it will be used to make the racing jags instead).

It may even have an impact on the Aston Project and Mazda.

[gwyllion]

But maybe this means that the Ford group plans on coming back to Le Mans ...

We can only wait and see.

I hope this decision also effects their plans for WRC and WTCC.

[vandijk]

Qouted from the PR:

"Joe Greenwell said, "Jaguar's presence in Formula One has been a valuable marketing and brand awareness platform particularly outside our main markets of the US and the UK. However it was our collective view that it is time for Jaguar Cars to focus 100% on our core business."


After a thorough review over many months Ford Motor Company has decided it can no longer make a compelling business case for any of its brands to compete in Formula One. Having reached this decision our focus has turned to securing the best future for our Formula One businesses and our employees in these businesses going forward. We are therefore putting our Formula One businesses up for sale."

[paul-collins]

Jaguar Cars' core business?

What would Andy Wallace say that is?

[Adam43]

Well this goes hand in hand with them closing (or at least stopping car production at) Browns Lane. This is the very heart of Jaguar. The further production moves away from Coventry the less of a Jaguar it becomes. It is a lessening effect is very drastic - by the time we get to Liverpool it is a Mondeo. And Milton Keynes? Well it was F1, which isn't really Jaguar is it?

I am quite upset by all this. Maybe I shall become more pragmatic. At the moment though we have seen Jaguar try and become a big (in terms of volumes) car manufacture. Which it isn't. We have seen it produce front wheel drive cars. Why? So we could have a cheap Jaguar. Pah! It is meant to be the definition of quality, not more expensive, slower and less well equiped than a Mondeo.

In terms of Le Mans I have two feeling on this. Firstly the practical one. Closing factories is not conducive to launching new motorsport programs. Secondly, what is the point in going back to Le Mans, Jaguar is dead.

[Paddy_NL]

I doubt whether Jaguar could even compete at LM in 2005, there just isn't enough time left to draw, build and test a car within 8 months

[Graham Goodwin]

The rumour looks like just that - a rumour

With an Aston Martin programme underway in GTS a return for Jaguar in LMP / GTP makes no sense at all at the moment, quite apart from their current financial issues.

Where is the common sense in two of Ford's premium brands going head to head - And for that metter for the more 'premium' of the two to be in a slower category - I'm sure Ford are looking at the possibilities for the future but it won't be for a while yet with Jaguar.

[KA]

Originally posted by Graham Goodwin


Where is the common sense in two of Ford's premium brands going head to head - And for that metter for the more 'premium' of the two to be in a slower category - I'm sure Ford are looking at the possibilities for the future but it won't be for a while yet with Jaguar.

Wasn't that the reason that Aston's Group C programme was canned after 1989?- Ford didn't want the two brands competng against each other, with the result that Jag got the Ford 3.5-litre engines for 1991, and Aston didn't....

[Petrick]

Jaguar GTP doesn't sound impossible. ALMS/LMES/Lemans is much cheaper than F1, but you can get good reputation racing in those series. But i don't expect too much.

[Mal]

Originally posted by KA
Wasn't that the reason that Aston's Group C programme was canned after 1989?- Ford didn't want the two brands competng against each other, with the result that Jag got the Ford 3.5-litre engines for 1991, and Aston didn't....

Ford didnt own either manufacturer in 1989!

[Asa]

But the problem can be solved by having Jaguar GTP in LMES only while Aston Martin only races in FIA GT.

In the US, you can race the Jaguar GTP in ALMS and the Aston in GrandAm or sth... sorry I don't know the American racing scene very well.

That way they will only meet at Le Mans.