Octagon/BHL's future (merge)

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by falcemob
Also, why would Snett be good for developers as it's nowhere near any existing development,
Errr, they have a brand new dual carriageway outside and the industrial estates nearby are expanding rapidly. It has excellent comunications with Norfolk and London, what better place to be? I also heard that the market is going to be developed for houses, so once that happens the noise police will turn up, and bye bye race track.

There are no housing developments within two miles of Snett (as the crow flies). This would not be a housing estate but a new village and I'm near sure would never get planning for conversion of the land to residential use. Also, pls don't forget the preservation orders on the remaining runway...

Why all these doom-mongers on this thread - nothing that hasn't been seen before or doubtless will be again...

[Stephen Green]

Peter, McLaren already have approved planning to build the new factory at Lydden. I believe it's for them to build the new Mercedes sports car, the latter day McLaren F1 car if you like. With the current slowdown in world economies, Mercedes have put back building the factory for a couple of years (or more) according to sources.

[Cynic]

The writing seems to have been on the wall for Snetterton for some time, and personally I'd be quite happy to see Brands go to the wall as there just isn't the room to improve the facilities, although given they supposedly have a 5-year deal for the CART race that may give them some breathing space. Oulton is probably too far off the beaten track so I'd be suprised to see that developed.
It is sad for motorsport if these tracks go, but it's indicative of the direction the sport in general is heading in at the moment. The best we can hope for is that it may wake the powers that be up so that they actually try to do something constructive to rescue the situation, rather then let it degenerate further.

[Andrew Kitson]

What is the latest story/update with the MSA study as reported in MN / Autosport a couple of months ago - re: the investigation into finding up to 5 possible new sites for circuits in East Anglia? Anybody know? More importantly, what does the MSA know that has prompted this search?

[goforit500]

Isn't it a shame that we have gone from ownership of these circuits by a genuine enthusiast to the situation whereby British motorsport is facing a crisis of massive proportions - Primarily due to greed.

How big is British motorsport industry ??

£26m isn't a big deal in 2003 - The MSA should be lobbying the big players with a view to purchase FOR THE GOOD OF THE SPORT !!!

The loss of three of the most important and challenging corcuits in the country will not be mitigated by places like Rockingham. The bestloved circuits provide a driver with some serious questions and the spectator with some answers....Sanitised feather beds such as the Rock (As good as it is - I'm not knoecking it at all) would not compensate for the likes of Druids at Oulton or Dingle Dell at Brands....

I may just accelerate plans to sod off to Australia if this happens...

[Adam43]

Originally posted by jamo
On what basis - each circuit has it's own merits ?

In this case on the basis that they are more fun to drive, have more challenging corners. Are quicker. I'm sorry but comparing Anglesey to Oulton is like comparing Hungaroring to Spa (another injustice Hungaroring is used Spa isn't).

Is this not just a process of evolution - old circuits close and allow a new set of names to appear ... and become 'the' circuits of the future ??

But this evolution is not based on survival of the fittest. The circuits aren't closing because they are the worst for racing, they are closing because of reasons outside motor racing. And you can't race GT cars, F3 cars, (etc...) at Anglesey.

These new 'the' circuits you speak of - they can't be developed to become as good circuits as the ones that this thread suggests we might lose. I'm sorry, but they can't.

As I say, I like Anglesey, had a lot of racing there, but to suggest it is, or can be, better than Brands is daft.

There is also the historical significance, which is important too.

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
only interested party for Brands has been Sainsburys to develop the site as a distribution centre.

That would just take the pi$$

That really, really does

[speedy king]

Brands Hatch is underprotection, and i'm pretty sure the same aplies to Oulton

[speedy king]

and Snetterton is also underprotection as someone has already said due to it being an old WW11 site.

One thing we can all do for the good of motor sport, bottleg the government with letters.....

[Werewolf]

I have heard a rumour that Oulton has got a new lease but dont know how long for.As for being off the track for development you obviously dont know how much houses cost up here.Developers would love to convert land into houses.Just think of that nice fat profit.

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by Werewolf
As for being off the track for development you obviously dont know how much houses cost up here.Developers would love to convert land into houses.Just think of that nice fat profit.

And the government would overturn any protection if a site became availble to development?

[Les]

24 June 2003 Ref: NR1274

Jones Lang LaSalle Instructed To Sell Brands Hatch


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jones Lang LaSalle's Corporate Finance team has been instructed to sell the world famous Brands Hatch racing circuit as part of an overall package of four UK circuits, which includes Snetterton, Oulton Park and Cadwell Park.

The sale includes an aggregate of 1,050 acres of freehold land with potential long-term leisure and residential development angles. However, the principle value of the business is generated by the underlying operations of hosting motor racing events, track testing, corporate/retail entertainment days and motor sport activities. The business is currently owned by The Interpublic Group of Companies, Inc. a New York Stock Exchange quoted advertising and marketing communications group.

Commenting on the mandate Tony Edgley, Chairman of Jones Lang LaSalle's Corporate Finance team, said: "We are increasingly involved in real estate based financial and corporate transactions where generally the value is a combination of on-going operations and a real estate asset base. For example in this mandate, the bulk of the value lies in the intellectual property and licences owned by the business and its operations earnings multiple."

Julie Green, European Director, who is leading the transaction within Jones Lang LaSalle's Corporate Finance team, said: "This investment opportunity is already generating a wide range of enquiries. There are many high net worth individuals and companies associated with motor racing who will find this offer extremely attractive. We also believe that the business will appeal to a wider universe of UK and International investors. We have received over 70 enquiries in the pre-marketing period and we are expecting significant additional interest now that we have formally commenced the marketing process."

Initial bids are expected to be called for at the end of July with the transaction due to be completed in September.


Ouch - that is quick and they are not ruling out residential.

[vaughan jones]

I cant see the value of snett for housing? Its not near norwich or thetford, lots of land in the area could be sale for housing, i still think that it has quite convuleted ownership. I think in pre brands hatch days it was still owned by mod,farmers still rent parts of the land,post brands hatch, while they ran the circuit it was owned by a dutch co. the principle of which was mary foulston,large chunks of the site have gone to other ownership in the last 15 years or so. I can see no great value in the site, no doubt you will all tell i am talking out of my a...e, i wait your posts with baited breath, i called in their on friday, motorbike testing, very busy, we get involved with cars, dont forget bikes use circuits as well,is that right that nat. superbikes get better gates than the btcc/powertour???

[vaughan jones]

Any one looking for sites in East Anglia, if it essential that have been a old air field,they could take their pick of Oakington,nr Cambridge,4 or 5 special stage rallies a year are run there,track days got the noise police or the we cant stand holigan driving in caterhams/superbikes round the village police to shut it down, the same happened at Ben****ers near Ipswich, almost the longest runway in the UK. you also have West Raynham and Sculthorpe near Fakenham

[Rod Birley]

Fact. Allied London Properties own a chunk of land just outside Brands (from the paddock entrance turn right and head towards the Portobello pub, it is the land on the left). They have owned it for at least ten years and periodically apply for planning permission. Last month Sevenoaks District council indicated they might get permission if a proportion of the proposed housing was economically affordable to first time buyers. The GP loop is in an area of wooded countryside covered by the green belt in WK2 and has strict restrictions, hence the failure of the Grand Prix plan. The Dingle Dell corner has just been altered to keep the FIM happy and retain World superbikes, currently the biggest earner at Brands (yes BSB does currently get better crowds than BTCC..not surprisingly). The club or Indy circuit has possibly been re-classified as a brown field site due to the amount of tarmac and former building bases/foundations etc. Historically the area has been used for motorsport since 1926 making it one of the oldest venues in Britain. The GP loop is still regarded as one of Europes top driver circuits, the HSCC meeting at the weekend had full grids for virtually every race.
Building land in Cheshire is now over a million £s per acre, the highest in Britain. Snetterton has got a recently widened A11, plus new warehouses/industrial units springing up close by. Its no wonder developers are sniffing around.

[Richy_Rich]

It's truly shocking all this talk of supermarkets and housing estates. What could be a more ghastly way to develop _any_ area of land? Perhaps a Warner Brothers cinema and bowling alley? What type of country are they trying to create?

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by speedy king
Brands Hatch is underprotection, and i'm pretty sure the same aplies to Oulton

Incorrect James.

You know where im working this week and they've been helping me research.

None of the circuits themselves are under protection however it may be difficult to get planning permission HOWEVER it could be obtained if they realy tryed and if the circuit is seen as deralict and unused because the government like to build on so called brownfield sites.

[Les]

It's sad really because each track is a haven for birds and other wildlife and it will just end up as a lump of concrete.

[Snapper Baz]

Combe etc must be rubbing their hands on hearing this! Can you imagine trying to cram about 30 or 40 races in at one circuit cos' thats what will need to happen with millions of championships all trying to be run...and then the clubs will have to charge double the entry fee's they do now just to survive...looks like a lot of us will be visiting Wimbledon and Ipswich soon for our weekends fix!! PS: What the hell will Autosport report on every week???

[Sim_Da_BTCC_Man]

Originally posted by Les
It's sad really because each track is a haven for birds and other wildlife and it will just end up as a lump of concrete.

Is it not concrete already?

Originally posted by Snapper Baz
What the hell will Autosport report on every week???

F1 and Cart as of ever

[snetmarshal]

Well at the beginning of the year there was talk of the local council supporting a centre of technical excellence being built just outside snet with a heavy emphesis on motor racing industry and also new units to attract more teams to set up there. I should also point out Snet is the busiest circuit in europe (so I have been told) with all the testing that takes place, I beleive it actually makes a healthy profit which is then poured into BRDC buildings at Silverstone. It would seem silverstone is the main reason for the loss and most circuits run at profit level which is absorbed by silverstone

[JohnMiller]

Moral of story equals scrap the soulless tarmac kingdom of Silverstone and let us continue to race on the real tracks?

[Piglet]

I'm not sure that it's Silverstone per se that is the black hole, but more the investment required to keep it up to GP standard. The trouble is if the circuit isn't kept up to scratch for the GP would it still be able to carry out F1 testing? Even if it could would the teams want to test there as much? What effect would this have on the business of motor racing in this country?

It's an easy answer to say stop investing in Silverstone but the ramifications of this could be pretty large.

What no-one seems to have mentioned is that as well as the circuits being up for sale the news report above refers to the intellectual property and commercial rights held by Octagon - does anyone know exactly what these are? Presumably the rights to the GP but do Octagon currently own the rights to F3/GT that were once held by BMP?

[JR Ewing]

Speaking now as someone who does have direct experience of property developing:

Brands Hatch IS very attractive for housing. However, if there is one circuit that 'history' can save, it must be Brands surely?

Oulton Park - could also be attractive for residential development and probably most 'at risk.'

Snetteron is a TOTAL non-starter as it is an industrial area and has no residential infrastructurer. This would be a new township and not a development as such. I would give this 1 chance in a 100 if that and even then, like twenty years, of wrangling.

Cadwell - same as Snett - even more so. Anyone who thinks they might build residential (or anything) there is a lunatic....

Stop worrying.

Ironically, it is proably Silverstone that is at greates risk as it's ability to operate solvently and as profit centre is questionable...

[DMC]

Originally posted by goforit500
I may just accelerate plans to sod off to Australia if this happens...

Same thing happening here I'm afraid.