Group B register

JAG · 1 Dec 2003, 15:23 (Ref:800410)

Are there any registers listing the whereabouts of the Group B rallycars from the 80s.

With 200 road cars plus the evolutions they must be spread far and wide.

How many of the roadcars were converted to rally/rallycross spec and vice versa. I would love to see a road spec Audi Sport Quattro S1!

I've seen a few Group B cars at motorsport events in UK such as the Sport Quattro and RS200s but would love to see an historic event in the UK for these cars, as they have had supporting WRC events in Europe. I think these events are organised by an organisation called the 'sideways club' or something similar.

**BertMk2** · 1 Dec 2003, 16:16 (Ref:800454)

The group you're thinking of is the 'Slowly sideways group', they run group B and historic cars (they were at the rally supercar day at castle combe this year).

The number of each type still about obviously varies greatly, everyone knows there are plenty of 6R4's still rallying (and a few in rallycross and sprints/hillclimbs). RS200's are probably fewer and further between, Ford broke up some of the 200 to provide spares for the other cars when the program was cancelled. I can think of 6 RS200's I know the rough wherabouts of (or at least who owns it) but beyond that I'm struggling.

Of the others I have no idea what became of them there must be T16's, S1's and S4's somewhere, they can't all have been written off!

Barrie · 1 Dec 2003, 18:17 (Ref:800563)

At a rough guess there was about 40 RS200's used in rallycross and I would say about the same amount maybe more 6R4's were used. After there days in rallycross the cars were either used for other less demanding motorsports, put in museums, or canabalised for the new breed of rallycross cars that came into effect in 93 season. There's a museum in France that houses alot of Groupe B machines. Quattro S1's were a hybrid of the Quattro Sport what I imagine makes up most of the 200 required. 205's I would imagine are still in France as they were so expensive, I only know of a couple of super wealthy Finn's that used them in competition, that would be the same story with the Delta S4, this car was the most complex of the bunch.

Stevie A · 1 Dec 2003, 19:30 (Ref:800618)

There are a lot of original road versions and ex works (raced and un-raced) group B rallycars from all the manufacturers for sale at www.carclassic.com

Included is an ex Walter Rohrl S1 and a Martini liveried Lancia S4 built for Toivenen which was never raced due to his death.

Also, some of the ads even give info such as chassis numbers.

JAG · 1 Dec 2003, 21:23 (Ref:800695)

Thanks for the info. I know of a museum in the UK that owned, I believe, by David Sutton that houses a Quattro Sport, S1 Pike Peak (possibly a replica) and examples of RS200s, 037 and S4, plus others.

Another Quattro S1, road going S4 and various RS200s/6R4s are owned by former members of the Group B car club. Plus one of those dreadful Citroen BX4s that must be very rare as many were destroyed by Citroen.

juha Kankunen also owns a T16 Evo II and other Group B cars. I believe Armin Schwarz also owns a works spec Delta S4.

BTW when is the next Castle Combe Supercar Day. Is it worth going too?

JAG · 1 Dec 2003, 21:57 (Ref:800726)

Just checked out car classic and they have an awsome selection of cars including Todts personal 205 T16 road car.

I also noticed that the Toivenen S4 has a 650BHP engine in standard trim, certainly more than the 480BHP they were claiming at the time. Just imagine what it produced when thay turned the boost up!

JAG · 1 Dec 2003, 23:46 (Ref:800830)

Oh, and weren't there 2 S1s competing in the race of champions even?

Including the cars at car classics there are at least 7 or 8 S1s I know of knockong around. Good to see these cars are being preserved unlike some previous rallycars.

**BertMk2** · 2 Dec 2003, 09:07 (Ref:801220)

I don't know when next years supercar day is yet (I don't think the date has been confirmed). It was pretty good this year but it could always do with a few more of the group B cars tearing up the track. They had Stig Blomqvists pikes peak RS200 there this year - it was an amazing piece of machinery! I think the list of types was as follows:

RS200
Escort Mk1
Escort Mk2
Escort Mk5? Cosworth
Lancia Stratos
Lancia Integrale
Peugeot 205 T16
Metro 6R4
Renault 5 maxi turbo
Talbot Sunbeam
Datsun ????? (can't remember the model)
Audi Quattro
Audi Quattro S1
Vauxhall Chevette HSR
Vauxhall Corsa S1600
Opel Manta
MG ZR
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 7 WRC

(any one know any I've missed? Bound to be a few)

It would be good if the cars were all let loose on the full circuit as well (not just the stage they set up), Blomqvists RS200 was too much of an animal for the restricted space it was given - it would have been awesome to see that at full blast round the track. The 6R4's sounded really good when they were turned loose.

**BertMk2** · 2 Dec 2003, 10:31 (Ref:801319)

I've had a bit of a rummage and I've come up with the following numbers for RS200's:

6 * Prototype
24 * Evo
90 (ish) * Road trim
40 (ish) * Broken for spares

That leaves another 40 unaccounted for but presumably they would be the 'standard' rally models (and presumably would also take up a bit of the 'ish' factor from the other quantities). I've got no way of verifying these figures (they're grabbed off various internet sites so they could be hugely inaccurate).

moyzer · 5 Dec 2003, 13:40 (Ref:804754)

The group B cars were, in my opinion, the most exiting cars ever to be built. Ridiculous horsepower in something that you could do your weekly shop in. More entertaining than the modern 300bhp WRC's by a long shot. There's nothing quite like the sound of the 5 pot quattro S1 on full chat.

I'm guessing BertMk2, that you are a fan of the RS200! I can't think of a better car ever made for looks, performance etc. I love it!
I just got the 'scrapbook' type publication on the RS200 from www.uniquemotorbooks.co.uk which really does make me grin in awe. It talks about an anonymous rallycross competitor claiming 750 BHP, and 80MPH in first gear!!!

Mach 2 motorsport have a pretty awsome Pikes Peak example too.

It would be great to see a good collection of these beasts from around the world in one place, being driven like they were stolen!!!!

**BertMk2** · 5 Dec 2003, 14:32 (Ref:804795)

Quote:

Originally posted by moyzer
The group B cars were, in my opinion, the most exiting cars ever to be built. Ridiculous horsepower in something that you could do your weekly shop in. More entertaining than the modern 300bhp WRC's by a long shot. There's nothing quite like the sound of the 5 pot quattro S1 on full chat.

I'm guessing BertMk2, that you are a fan of the RS200! I can't think of a better car ever made for looks, performance etc. I love it!
I just got the 'scrapbook' type publication on the RS200 from www.uniquemotorbooks.co.uk which really does make me grin in awe. It talks about an anonymous rallycross competitor claiming 750 BHP, and 80MPH in first gear!!!

Mach 2 motorsport have a pretty awsome Pikes Peak example too.

It would be great to see a good collection of these beasts from around the world in one place, being driven like they were stolen!!!!

Spot on! I love the group B cars, they look wild, sound incredible and go like the clappers. As you've noticed I like the RS200 in particular - totaly insane. I think that Mach 2 RS200 is the one that was at Castle Combe this year being driven by Stig Blomqvist. There is also an RS200 that competes in the British Rallycross championship that is reputed to have over 700bhp and does 0-60 in 1.8 seconds (looks great too). Check www.patdoran.co.uk for the rallycross car.

As you say the current crop of WRC cars just don't match up for sheer entertainment do they? (Although the WRC cars are probably quicker through a stage thanks to active diffs and the like)

Stevie A · 5 Dec 2003, 15:28 (Ref:804856)

I agree, the RS200 is probably my fave rally/rallycross car ever. Nothing else in either WRC or British Rallycross has the same presence and attracts so much attention.

Talking to Pat Doran's chief mechanic at the August Bank Holiday Lydden event, he said that the 2.0 BDT-E Brian Hart engine was producing 806 bhp and surely with the modern aerodynamics, sequential box, launch control etc it must surely be the quickest rallycross RS200 ever.

Performance figures in the region of 0-60 < 2secs, 0-100 < 5secs and 0-100-0 < 9secs......so i've been told.

The pikes peak example drove by Stig Blomquist looks awesome too. That apparently has 836bhp but from a specially built 2.4 engine. Have got a video of it somewhere tesing at Rockingham.

Oh, and Doran's car will be at the Autosport International show at the NEC in January with Carnegie, McCluskey and Gollop also. They'll be doing demos in the Live Action Arena.

Barrie · 5 Dec 2003, 17:37 (Ref:804989)

Olle Arnesson's brutal Quattro S1, absolute favourite car, and great driver.

**Dani Filth** · 6 Dec 2003, 16:59 (Ref:805614)

i love the first Group B car .. the Lancia 037

http://www.lanciarally037.com/

blackx · 6 Dec 2003, 17:18 (Ref:805623)

Quote:

Thanks for the info. I know of a museum in the UK that owned, I believe, by David Sutton that houses a Quattro Sport, S1 Pike Peak (possibly a replica) and examples of RS200s, 037 and S4, plus others.

The Quattro you speak of is in fact a Pikes Peak replica..

It used to belong to a man called Tom Hammonds who hillclinbed it for many years and still holds the closed car record at Shelsley Walsh...

It was developed by Tom including many trips to the wind tunnel at MIRA which explains all the wings that it sprouted over the years...

Many engine modifications were carried out which ended up with the car producing somewhere in the region of 720bhp and running variable boost....

I believe the above info to be correct but if its not please feel free to correct me....

The Quattro is IMHO the best group b car of them all and if anybody knows where I can get a model of the short wheelbase quattro then please send mee a pm...

JAG · 14 Dec 2003, 21:48 (Ref:811808)

Thanks for all of the great info. I'm seriously considering building a website with as much Group B information, picture, video clips etc. as possible.

Can annyone point me in the direction of web sites that cover Groub B, particulalry info, statistics etc.

At least now you can get great footage/pictures of the Group B cars in action due to the various 'supercar' days etc. having missed out on these great cars in there heyday.

BTW if you are interested in Group B models in 1/18 scale, AutoArt have just produced the long wheelbase Quattro in both road and rally spec, and are producing a models of the short wheelbase Quattro in road and rally spec. The S1 will also be made.

The Delta S4 is also being made by AutoArt, the RS200 by Ricko and the 037 by Kyosho. The R5 Turbo I and II are made by Eagles race. All are/will be great models.

Some good online model shops include Grand Prix Legends, Modelissimo, Alex Reade and Trax.

**BertMk2** · 18 Dec 2003, 14:38 (Ref:815201)

Quote:

Originally posted by JAG
Thanks for all of the great info. I'm seriously considering building a website with as much Group B information, picture, video clips etc. as possible.

Go for it! There just aren't enough decent Group B resources out there! Even tracking down images of the cars can be hard work. I've taken loads of photos of Dorans RS200 and assorted rallycross 6R4's but I'm a bit light as far as the other cars are concerned. I need more trackdays!

moyzer · 19 Dec 2003, 08:25 (Ref:815843)

stick "tennodai rs200" on the google search (worldwide, not uk)
Its in Japanese but there are some great pics of RS200s and a few S4s on there. Its worth fudging your way through the hyroglyphics!!

And I totally agree with the lack of good 'B' sites!

**BertMk2** · 19 Dec 2003, 08:39 (Ref:815850)

Good stuff! Does anybody have a clue what they're on about though??

supertouring · 19 Dec 2003, 16:10 (Ref:816202)

Some shots of this years rally supercar day here if anyone is interested:

http://www.supertouring.co.uk/gallery/rally_1.html

supertouring · 19 Dec 2003, 16:33 (Ref:816215)

Also try these:

http://www.slowlysideways.com/englis...boutustxt.html

http://www.courtney-msport.com/03-manxgroupb/page1.htm

http://212.67.202.161/~markw/rallyin...s2002_2001.htm

**BertMk2** · 22 Dec 2003, 15:36 (Ref:818255)

There are more images of the pikes peak RS200 at www.mach2racing.com

I want one!

Bob Irvine.. · 22 Dec 2003, 17:35 (Ref:818318)

Just the 1 then Bert.If my wife doesnt get me an ex works S1 Quattro for xmas,well,she knows where the door is!

redshoes · 22 Dec 2003, 18:31 (Ref:818364)

You'd better let the wife see these 2 pages then

http://www.carclassic.com/html/AF62.htm
http://www.carclassic.com/html/DG65.htm

rdjones · 22 Dec 2003, 19:15 (Ref:818401)

If anyone is free on Sunday, sadly I'm not, get yourself along to Croft for The Christmas Stages, where Steve Perez will be driving an ex ex Hannu Mikkola Audi Sport Quattro, from what I have read on another forum the car still has the original paint job and decals.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Group B & Group S rally cars research	TrevorC	Motorsport History	18	3 May 2018 05:25
Van Diemen Register	roger saretzki	Motorsport History	10	8 Apr 2011 14:07
F2 register	ss_collins	Motorsport History	6	21 Jul 2004 20:24
What is you favourite Group 4 (pre Group B) 1970's Rallycar and why?	Robin Plummer	Rallying & Rallycross	13	17 Feb 2003 21:37