HSCC Autosport 3hr Snett 30th/31st May - Page 4

dikko · 2 Jun 2009, 01:32 (Ref:2473754)

update on the 2 formula ford boys in the marshalls forum.

terence · 2 Jun 2009, 03:05 (Ref:2473770)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Scannell

Well what can I say! An absolutely superb weekend!

I would also just like to say a really big thank to our Safety Car teams Terry Bower & Chris Ansell, Steve Bradley & Russell Davies for doing a brilliant job over the weekend - it was really a pleasure to work you all throughout and your efforts well appreciated by the whole race control team upstairs.

Now where's that 2010 diary - have a date to pencil in!!

Terry

Terry,I know Chris will agree that it was a pleasure working with you,Sam ,Peter and Alan,and of course every one else in RC.We were very gratefull for to Steve and Russell for the opportunity of a break every so often,just sorry that Steve seemed to get the "quiet" spell's but at least he was ensconced in an air conditioned environment for his spell's in the car,thankyou for the thoughtfullness of providing a back-up team Terry,that was very much appreciated! Good news about the S/Seater boys but I have to say that after reading "Dikkos" report on Terry Tumber,seem,s to me that we are all very priviledged to have a Doctor of Barry's skill available,diagnosing Terry so accuratly "on scene".!!
Fantastic weekend meeting up with everyone I had the opportunity to see,good to have a decent conversation with JT [without a single phone call,I did tell you I would leave it in the car next time John!] Still a little curious over the main question though John,do I have a fairy god mother watching over me?

simon drabble · 2 Jun 2009, 06:56 (Ref:2473830)

I am sorry to have missed it after gremlins appeared in testing on Friday. It is up there as one of the "must do" meetings and is HSCC at its very finest... however the good news is that we will be fixed for Castle Combe

**John Turner** · 2 Jun 2009, 06:56 (Ref:2473831)

Quote:

Originally Posted by terence bower

Still a little curious over the main question though John,do I have a fairy god mother watching over me?

Yeah, but it's not me; I reckon you can look after yourself. And no-one has a clue what we are talking about. Mind you, they are probably wondering to what Roger Wills was alluding to as well - no doubt all will be revealed in time!

Great to get another driver account; thanks Cliff Ryan.

simon drabble · 2 Jun 2009, 06:58 (Ref:2473832)

John I forgot to add - great to see your reports back!

**John Turner** · 2 Jun 2009, 06:58 (Ref:2473833)

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I am sorry to have missed it after gremlins appeared in testing on Friday. It is up there as one of the "must do" meetings and is HSCC at its very finest

Simon, absolutely right; you should have stayed to spectate to see what you were missing! Thanks for kind comments.

**John Turner** · 2 Jun 2009, 07:30 (Ref:2473844)

17 starters; 10 finishers.

An unusually high attrition rate for these cars during their 20 minute race but plenty of action going on, particularly up at the front, where initially Gordon Russell (27 - Cooper Mk8), Nigel Ashman (1 - Cooper Mk X1) and David Lecoq (29 - Petty) diced for the lead. As Ashman started to drop back, eventually to retire, the leading pair continued to battle but both were caught and passed by the charging Steve Jones (74 - Cooper Mk X). Whilst Lecoq then retired, Russell hung onto Jones and snatched the lead back on the final lap to win by half a second. It had been an inspired drive by Jones though, and he had posted a race lap nearly 7 tenths quicker than anybody else. The racing behind was close too, as Mike Fowler and Nigel Challis (both in Coopers) were less than a second a part at the flag, in 3rd and 4th, and Rodney Delves (Keift CK52) and Richard Utley (JBS Norton Mk1) finished 8th and 9th split by well under a second.

Apologies for pics all taken at the same location (from inside of the circuit at the Esses); I was trying to stop rushing about! The first pic shows the early dice between Russell, Ashman and Lecoq. The next is of Delves in the Keift, whilst the 3rd pic is of Utley's JBS Norton. Mark Palmer was the last classified finisher, and this shows to good effect both his Wishart Mk11 and his cornering style. I noted at least one other driver doing this; is this because of non existent lateral support in these cars? Car 8 is the Martin of Roy Hunt who finished 5th and finally we have Mike Fowler's 3rd placed Cooper Mk5.

dikko · 2 Jun 2009, 07:36 (Ref:2473845)

[QUOTE=terence bower;2473770]" report on Terry Tumber,seem,s to me that we are all very priviledged to have a Doctor of Barry's skill available,diagnosing Terry so accuratly "on scene".!!
QUOTE]

It needs to be confirmed but it seems there wasn't an x-ray at Norwich for whatever reason, if there was an 'on-scene' diagnosis it seems it may not have got back to A&E. Is there an info exchange procedure?

terence · 2 Jun 2009, 07:40 (Ref:2473847)

Barry did go to the hospital with Terry [I think] but he would have given his report either by phone or to the Ambulance crew I would have imagined.

**John Turner** · 2 Jun 2009, 08:30 (Ref:2473865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dikko

update on the 2 formula ford boys in the marshalls forum.

Dick, thanks for that; I hope you don't mind but I've copied your post across, below. Good to meet you again, at the weekend, too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by dikko

We would like to apologise for the crashes at the Sunday Meeting of the Autosport 3 hours weekend.

But mainly....the 2 involved would like me to pass on their thanks to all the marshalls and the medical boys for their great service to them.

You'll be pleased to know that one of our fold has returned, bruised, battered but without broken bones back home to Brighton in the loving care of his wife Caroline. Neil Davies (no 6) was released from Norwich Assessment Ward on Monday 1st at 11 am taken to see his equally battered car, then returned to his ever-loving and by 9 pm should have been home and tucked up with a cup of cocoa. Apart from an aching shoulder and wrist is looking forward to receiving his first repair estimate......

NOT so pleasing is the fate of our Terry Tumber who stopped the race the first time when avoiding a spinner decided to stuff himself into the tyres at Riches. His wife Viv (11.30 Mon eve) tells me that after being released from above-mentioned hospital on Sunday evening and staying at a local hotel his back pains increased to the point of when he returned home his GP ordered him to be re-examined. After X-rays it was found he had a fractured Sternum AND a shattered F1 vertebrae and is staying in the true Formula Ford style.....ie flat out.. at a Hospital in London.

Both (and the whole grid too I'm sure) would like thank you guys & gals. Without you we couldn't have the fun we were having....er up to that point that is.... .

I will of course be attempting to cover the HFF races later. They certainly had an incident packed Sunday morning and we wish both Neil and Terry good recoveries, although in Terry's case, it may not be so speedy.

Marcus Mussa · 2 Jun 2009, 16:00 (Ref:2474109)

Are they apologising to all of us whose races were shortened as a result of their antics? How very nice of them!
Marcus

terence · 2 Jun 2009, 17:06 (Ref:2474138)

Marcus,I doubt they did it on purpose!.I agree that it was more than a little frustrating,even more so to the team upstairs.

zefarelly · 2 Jun 2009, 19:05 (Ref:2474216)

I'm sure everyone did their upmost to save as much time as possible, I think it was an H&S issue whereby they had to wait for the Ambulances to return to the circuit before resuming play.

I'm sure you'd have been less impressed if you'd had a shunt and there'd only been a flat bed Bedford CF to shift you to A&E!

we got our full 40 minutes, although some of us chose not to take full advantage

If I blow another head gasket I'll be running 8:1 compression, welding the head on and boring to 2L to offset the power loss like everyone else

simon drabble · 3 Jun 2009, 07:10 (Ref:2474480)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

Are they apologising to all of us whose races were shortened as a result of their antics? How very nice of them!
Marcus

I hope that this is lost in translation...
I dont know you at all Marcus but I would suggest that you reread this and decide for yourself whether this is in good taste or not....

White flag man · 3 Jun 2009, 07:45 (Ref:2474499)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

23 starters; I'm reckoning about 17 proper finishers; the results sheet doesn't classify the DNFs.

Supported by Zircotec, this was a 30 minute race which included a compulsory 30 second pit stop. I'm afraid I missed much of this, as I was participating in a little presentation for a couple of drivers, so it was a bit of a rush job, snatching some pics starting at Riches Corner and working my way round Sear Corner to the end of the Revett Straight (yes, I did use my car) and I'm afraid it has led to much image scrappage and reduced pic choice! Sorry!

I arrived at Riches to find the little Turner Mk3 of Geoff Sizzey parked up; a great shame, as he had only completed 6 laps, and I don't think that I have seen either car or driver run before in this series (but I stand to be corrected!). For obvious reasons I cannot tell you too much about the race itself, so just a little narrative with the images.

The winner was Simon Crompton ( he used to race BMWs didn't he?) in a really nice orignal looking AC Cobra (77) from Julian Dodd (65 - TVR Griffith). My recollection is that James Paterson had caught and passed Dodd for 2nd in the dying moments of the race only to have to pull off and retire the multi coloured Morgan Plus 8 on the penultimate lap. We've heard from Paul Tooms (thanks, Paul) and his trial and tribulations but this is the best I can do to present an image of his Elan (46). Richard Owen's TR2 (91) on his way to 17th about to be lapped by 14th placed Rachael Watts in her Elan (50) which was doing interesting things with its pop up headlamps! Very unusual to see was the Volvo 1800S of Steven Bee which completed 14 laps (winner did 21), so I don't think it was running at the end, and finally (again it's the best I can do, James) is James Owen passing under the road bridge before the Esses on his way to 8th. He finished just 3 seconds behind 7th place Colin Sharp, so a good result for the TR5 boys!

Great reports John.
regarding Steven Bee and the Volvo. He pulled off at Riches because he.......
ran out of fuel! Said he forgot it was a longer race

**John Turner** · 3 Jun 2009, 08:12 (Ref:2474511)

27 starters; 21 finishers.

A 30 minute race, again accompanied by a compulsory pit stop. Richard Plant had placed his Morgan Plus 8 (19) on pole with Paul Anderson's Porsche 928 (64) alongside, and these two disputed the lead off the line, with Anderson gaining the early advantage after the dust had settled. However, Plant pressed him very hard whilst a few car lengths behind Peter Shaw held a watching brief in his V6 TVR Tuscan (34) and a fast closing Julian Barter (9 - TVR 3000M). There were some good dices down the field although most eyes were on the front group who continued to circulate closely for several laps. Plant squeezed back in front going into the Russell Chicane (see below) and was never really led after that when taking into account the pit stop. Anderson was badly baulked in the pitlane exit by a stalled car, and any chance of getting back at Plant was lost. He later retired from the race, as did Shaw, but a typically charging drive by Julian Barter got him to within 2.3 seconds of Plant at the flag, with Paul Conway (Morgan Plus 8) getting the better of Charles Barter (Datsun 240Z) to take 3rd.

I've not discussed this with anybody but, as I type this, I am mentally questioning the merit of compulsory pit stops in races where driver changes are not involved. Although of 30 minutes duration, these are still not long races. Pit stops tend to break up battles rather than create them. The programme makes reference to 'who handles the breaks in rhythm best will have a deciding factor' but who actually cares about that when they've seen the dices broken up as a result? To me it seems merely an academic exercise and has absolutely nothing to do with racing wheel to wheel and simply allows hot engines and frustrated drivers to get hotter whilst they are stopped! What else does the stop actually achieve? I'd be interested in the views of both drivers and spectators.

Now the pics:-
Philip McKelvey (15 - Morgan Plus 8) had a good battle with Phil Briggs (29 - Porsceh 928) but failed to finish, whereas Briggs took 5th place. 16th overall and D2 class winner, Alex Childs did this every lap in his Lancia Fulvia Sport. Pic 3 shows the moment Plant took the lead from Anderson, and it also shows how close the front running group were at this stage. Next we have Josh Sadler; now how long has he been racing? Longer than he'd care to mention, no doubt, but still very effective since he finished 6th overall in the 911. 96 is the Ford Capri 3000E of Nigel Barnett who finished 8th, whilst 26 is Paul Stafford who finished 13th in the Datsun 240Z despite posting a best lap fully 0.5 seconds quicker than Barnett. Charles Barter (24) about to lap Robert Barter (58 - Alfa Romeo GT1600 Junior - 20th) but also about lose 3rd from Conway.

terence · 3 Jun 2009, 08:20 (Ref:2474518)

I think there are two sides to the pit stop John,one being that it does create a window for any minor repairs where the driver does not loose out to someone who does not need to stop.The other side for making more interest for spectators,whether they would prefer just to see an un-interupted race or not,your guess is as good as mine.

Great reports as usual John and the photos are spot on,just beggers the question of "How many Drivers are aware of the fact that EVERY time they go Four Off on the second part of Russell,they get reported by the Observer sited on the outside of that bend"?

Marcus Mussa · 3 Jun 2009, 08:35 (Ref:2474523)

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon drabble

I hope that this is lost in translation...
I dont know you at all Marcus but I would suggest that you reread this and decide for yourself whether this is in good taste or not....

Well all I can say is that I watched the HFF race from Russell and saw a very good clean battle between the leaders. Then I saw two Lotus 61's fighting for 11th place, the leader of the two weaving from side to side (this is on acceleration in 1st gear from Russell!) to stop the car behind from passing him. Now I don't know the exact circumstances of this accident but I was not surprised that when the red flag came out it was these two cars that did not come around.
This is not the way I think one should be racing, particularly in a historic race. And even more particularly when the race has already been stopped once due to an accident.

**John Turner** · 3 Jun 2009, 08:38 (Ref:2474524)

Hmmm, not very convincing, Terry. What repairs are likely to be achieved in a 30 second stop? And turning your argument on its head why should a car that lasts the full race distance be equalised, or disadvantaged, to one that cannot manage the short race distance without attention? I've never been a great fan of creating artificial situations in motor racing; it's why I dislike all this 'equalisation' ballast and messing about with restrictors that we get in contemporary racing.

terence · 3 Jun 2009, 08:43 (Ref:2474529)

Points accepted John,but I guess the thing to do would be to ask those who thought up the rules

There are,occaisionally,minor things that can be rectified in that period of time,perhaps the driver has a runny nose and forgot to stick some tissues in his pocket?

simon drabble · 3 Jun 2009, 08:43 (Ref:2474530)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

Well all I can say is that I watched the HFF race from Russell and saw a very good clean battle between the leaders. Then I saw two Lotus 61's fighting for 11th place, the leader of the two weaving from side to side (this is on acceleration in 1st gear from Russell!) to stop the car behind from passing him. Now I don't know the exact circumstances of this accident but I was not surprised that when the red flag came out it was these two cars that did not come around.
This is not the way I think one should be racing, particularly in a historic race. And even more particularly when the race has already been stopped once due to an accident.

Certainly I agree that is not racing I would want to see in any race that I was in - I wasn't there so cannot comment in the context of the actual race but felt your comments (given there was certainly one injury requiring hospitalization) were not in great taste....

**John Turner** · 3 Jun 2009, 08:46 (Ref:2474531)

Terry, I'll probably get Chris Sharples having a go at me for uttering my thoughts publicly, but it is a genuinely held view, and one I thought worthy of discussion.

I'd also like to comment on the discussion regarding the HFF but I'm now off to the dentist (I knew that you'd all want to know that!), but, in the meantime, keep it nice and constructive, guys!

simon drabble · 3 Jun 2009, 08:54 (Ref:2474535)

I actually agree with John on this - pitstops should only be compulsory in 2 driver races and then I agree with minimum 1 minute stop to equalize 1 and 2 driver teams whether the single driver gets out or not I am less fussed by as I think sitting in a car for 1 minute is prabably more frustrating!
In respect to the 3 Hour it would be interesting to run it one year with FIA saloons as well and possibly without the invited sports racers...

terence · 3 Jun 2009, 09:10 (Ref:2474546)

I agree with that Simon,although it is a great event,I felt that it is in danger of becoming swamped by sports racers.
Perhaps there could be room for a one-off Saloon Challenge on the Sunday as the spectator numbers seemed to be that much higher,quite surprising really,obviously the weather helped a fair bit.Perhaps quaifying Sat and race Sunday morning from 9.30 through till lunch.Heard a couple of spectators complain at the number of SS race's during Sundays program,perhaps they have a point?

John,can't you send them by post?

Belmondo · 3 Jun 2009, 09:34 (Ref:2474562)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus Mussa

Well all I can say is that I watched the HFF race from Russell and saw a very good clean battle between the leaders. Then I saw two Lotus 61's fighting for 11th place, the leader of the two weaving from side to side (this is on acceleration in 1st gear from Russell!) to stop the car behind from passing him. Now I don't know the exact circumstances of this accident but I was not surprised that when the red flag came out it was these two cars that did not come around.
This is not the way I think one should be racing, particularly in a historic race. And even more particularly when the race has already been stopped once due to an accident.

Historic FF always looks looks like an accident waiting to happen to me, outside the top few places. Often you don't have to wait very long either.

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