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Old 9 Apr 2007, 09:47 (Ref:1887065)   #26
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Provocative?

What's provocative about a few statistics?

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Old 9 Apr 2007, 10:29 (Ref:1887094)   #27
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Originally Posted by Craig
Mark Webber - 87 starts, 1 podium.
Lewis Hamilton - 2 starts, 2 podiums.

Discuss.
Hamilton - 2 starts in a McLaren, Ferrari or Renault
Webber - 0 starts in a Mclaren, Renault or Ferrari

Hamilton - beaten by teammate easily twice out of 2.
Webber - beaten every teammate he has had including Coulthard (beat Raikkonnen one year), Heidfeld (looks OK in a half decent car doesnt he?), Rosberg (how was he at Sepang?), Davidson, Wilson, Yoong (by the same margin as Alonso beat him) etc etc

Gimme a break ... in F1 now there is far more difference between a Ferrari and a Spyker than there is between a Raikkonnen and a Aljbers ... if you have not grasped this concept then you know NOTHING about F1. Discuss that !
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 11:16 (Ref:1887126)   #28
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bombs away
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 11:18 (Ref:1887127)   #29
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Racer_kyle should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Okay why compare Hamilton to Webber? Compare him instead to someone like Villeneuve, Coulthard,Montoya, or maybe even Kimi. They all began their careers in top teams.(except kimi who spent one season at Sauber), as Hamilton is doing.
I think Villeneuve would perhaps be the best comparison. If Hamilton has won the championship by the end of next year he will be a great success IMO.

( I'm sure there are other drivers who have jumped straight into a top seat... but my knowledge of pre-1996 F1 is rather limited/non existant.)
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 12:06 (Ref:1887157)   #30
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( I'm sure there are other drivers who have jumped straight into a top seat... but my knowledge of pre-1996 F1 is rather limited/non existant.)
The Champions over the last ten years all started off in back of the grid or mid-field cars,all except JV that is.Alonso was at Minardi,Hakkinen was at Lotus,Damon Hill at Brabham and TGF as we all know did just one race (well,he qualified for it anyway) for Jordan.

I don't think that it was that much different before then,particularly if you look at the careers of Senna,Mansell and Prost.
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 12:46 (Ref:1887183)   #31
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Hamilton is leading a new generation of racers, who are "produced" from scratch, meticulously prepared through series with the best equipment and such, with minor "waste of time" with bad choices. They are tuned to be the best with the best. Piquet Jrn. seems to be from the same background, and more will come eventually.

I think that's the new step in the evolution of a driver's career, some refinement to get the raw talent and tailor it to become the best. I wonder if Prost and Senna could have the same way, they would have more WDC and wins in their pocket.

Last edited by Bononi; 9 Apr 2007 at 12:49.
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 12:50 (Ref:1887186)   #32
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Podia.
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 13:23 (Ref:1887206)   #33
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Podia.

Pedant
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 14:01 (Ref:1887236)   #34
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maximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmaximus should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by deeks6
Hamilton - beaten by teammate easily twice out of 2.
Webber - beaten every teammate he has had including Coulthard (beat Raikkonnen one year), Heidfeld (looks OK in a half decent car doesnt he?), Rosberg (how was he at Sepang?), Davidson, Wilson, Yoong (by the same margin as Alonso beat him) etc etc
Webber only beat Heidfeld only because of Heidfelds injury and why don't we wait until further on in the season before we can draw the Coulthard comparison too.

I do think this is a ridiculous comparison still though, as has already been said, one has a Mclaren, the other hasn't.

Last edited by maximus; 9 Apr 2007 at 14:04.
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 16:12 (Ref:1887321)   #35
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Okay so if we are comparing with the other rookie who was immediately successful- here's what we have

Hamilton -Australia - 3rd, Malaysia 2nd

Villeneuve- Australia Pole and 2nd, Brazil Retired, Argentina 2nd, Europe 1st.

So a win by the 4th race then Lewis? Could all happen.
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 21:29 (Ref:1887531)   #36
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No, he must retain a pattern and climb another step in the next race.

Quite what he will do in the race after I don't know, perhaps he will have to climb to the top of the podium gantry to maintain his progress. It could get very silly indeed.
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 21:38 (Ref:1887543)   #37
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Must say I wasn't surprised when James Allen commented that the next step after a 3rd and a 2nd is a win. ITV are hyping him up waaaay too much for my liking I didn't even bother watching the post race on Sunday. Talking non stop about Hamilton is bad enough, but when it's Mark Blundell trying to speak it's even worse. "It were a great race what he did" Grrr. [/itv rant over]
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Old 9 Apr 2007, 22:10 (Ref:1887570)   #38
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Well, surely and logically, the next step is a win?

Doesn't mean it will happen in the next race, but it is the next step.

The constant ITV hype is annoying though. Then again, it is to be expected and is no different to the past. At least now they have results to be excited about!
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 08:01 (Ref:1887733)   #39
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig
Mark Webber - 87 starts, 1 podium.
Lewis Hamilton - 2 starts, 2 podiums.

Discuss.
It took Jenson 113 GP's to finally win one, so why are we knocking Webber when he's still got 26 more starts before we can really call him a failure?
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 17:21 (Ref:1888199)   #40
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Snrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSnrub should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hamilton is more of a rookie than JV was. JPM had a win in his 3rd race in the bag, but again, he was more experienced.

Deeks6 makes a good point.

I think Heidfeld is a good example. For most of his career he was in 2nd rate equipment. He's driving extremely well this year and he's very consistant. There no reason that with a good car he couldn't win a WDC. There's other drivers like Rubins, Fisi and perhaps Massa who can be very good at times or in a perfect environment, but they aren't consistant enough to mount a sustained challange (although at Sauber, Jordan Fisi seemed like he was not in this group).

I don't like the Hamilton hype and I believe much of it is unfounded, but if the Mclarens are the dominant car this year then it stands to reason Hamilton will win at least once. I don't think any driver has been shut out by their teammate for an entire season (team orders aside).
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Old 10 Apr 2007, 18:05 (Ref:1888254)   #41
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Truth is that no matter how much we like the if's and easily he would be's, the history of F1 only have champions with the right equipment and the proper talent to use it at the right moment. The rest are losers.
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Old 15 Apr 2007, 15:32 (Ref:1892017)   #42
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Didn't catch the race today. How did it go?
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Old 15 Apr 2007, 15:41 (Ref:1892027)   #43
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Old 15 Apr 2007, 18:49 (Ref:1892270)   #44
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Didn't catch the race today. How did it go?



Evil Craig...
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Old 15 Apr 2007, 18:59 (Ref:1892289)   #45
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Didn't catch the race today. How did it go?
Hammy crashed into Alonso before the horrified eyes of Dennis. Webber passed through and won the race.


...and then I awoke of this nightmare and realized it is Craig who truly won the race
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