Nissan GTR at Bathurst: Not a Taxi!

[STEVO]

Full article here:


http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...mh:ClassiePuff


“Nissan will get back into some form of motorsport [in Australia] to show the capabilities of this vehicle [the GT-R],” says Ross Booth, marketing manager for Nissan Australia.

“One of the problems with Australian motorsport is a lack of a showcase for this type of vehicle [GT-R]. The organisers of V8 Supercars wouldn’t let us race in 1993 and I can guarantee they’re not going to let us race in 2008. It’s not a taxi as you know.

“It’s a matter of what’s the right [motorsport] program for it, and when we do it bearing in mind the car doesn’t go on sale here until early 2009,” says Booth.

“One of the most obvious options is the Targa [Tasmania] rally. And whether we can enter it into the Bathurst 12-hour depends on the rules. At the moment there’s a $125,000 [price tag] cut-off limit.”

The new Nissan GT-R is expected to cost about $150,000 when it finally arrives in Australia.

Booth says Nissan has mixed feelings about the Australian touring car organisers’ decision to ban the original Skyline GT-R after it won successive touring car titles from 1990 to 1992.

“At the time Nissan was quite upset at the decision and quite rightly so,” says Booth, who worked for Ford at the time. “The GT-R was a very formidable opponent, and to take it out of the number one Australian motorsport category was very controversial.

[EfiOz]

As far as racing goes, it's a bit of a difficult car to make competitive. It probably fits into GT Performance but what about the dollar cap?

If not, it's a sports car but it's not homologated for GT3 and wouldn't be up to the job if it was. Maybe GT4 with the Mazza and Mustang?

[Peddler]

The specs of this GTR (road goign version) are awsome! I can not wait to see it and hopefully drive it.

The simple fact is, that as long as AVESCO has the strangle hold on Australian motorsport... we will never see these types of cars racing down under.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Peddler

The specs of this GTR (road goign version) are awsome! I can not wait to see it and hopefully drive it.

The simple fact is, that as long as AVESCO has the strangle hold on Australian motorsport... we will never see these types of cars racing down under.

Let's blame AVESCO for everything eh? Nothing to do with them. They run a series for 4 door cars - Nissan have product that they could run under the Supercar rules if they wanted to such as V8 Infiniti (mind you, not sold here).

Your argument makes as much sense as suggesting that Audi couldn't bring their Le Mans cars here due to AVESCO - the reality is that if Nissan or anyone else want to race, they need a class to race in that they qualify for.

If the GTR is homologated for GT3 then they have an option in the GT series here - whether they would be competitive would be down to how they fit the rules and how well the team is run

[Chatters]

I would love to see the GT-R racing down under!!

[Peddler]

I do blame AVESCO you clown! and for a reason that most poeple understand! Before you claim my comments make as little sense as they do, consider what effects AVESCO have on ALL other classes of Australian motorsport.

AVESCO has such a massive influence within CAMS and with the V8Supertaxi circus that other classes of Australian motorsport have no freaking chance in hope in hells chance of the exposure that they do.

Yes i know that they are "the premier class" of Australian motorsport but have a look at the massive division in Australian motorsport at the moment and have a look at the restrictions in place on the promoters working with other motorsport classes and then look at the how AVESCO/CAMS shiits on everyone else who wants to promote Australian motorsport!

I will say it again incase you didnt understand it the first time...

The simple fact is, that as long as AVESCO has the strangle hold on Australian motorsport... we will never see these types of cars racing down under.

*insert dribbler icon here

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

As far as racing goes, it's a bit of a difficult car to make competitive. It probably fits into GT Performance but what about the dollar cap?

If not, it's a sports car but it's not homologated for GT3 and wouldn't be up to the job if it was. Maybe GT4 with the Mazza and Mustang?

I disagree, the road car is being compared to the Porsche 911 Turbo in performance, so it would be far in excess of the GT Performance class (also the Bathurst 12 Hour as mentioned in the article).

I think its most appropriate home would be in a form of sportscar racing. If the weight was right it could be ok in GT3.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Peddler

I do blame AVESCO you clown! and for a reason that most poeple understand! Before you claim my comments make as little sense as they do, consider what effects AVESCO have on ALL other classes of Australian motorsport.

AVESCO has such a massive influence within CAMS and with the V8Supertaxi circus that other classes of Australian motorsport have no freaking chance in hope in hells chance of the exposure that they do.

Yes i know that they are "the premier class" of Australian motorsport but have a look at the massive division in Australian motorsport at the moment and have a look at the restrictions in place on the promoters working with other motorsport classes and then look at the how AVESCO/CAMS shiits on everyone else who wants to promote Australian motorsport!

I will say it again incase you didnt understand it the first time...

The simple fact is, that as long as AVESCO has the strangle hold on Australian motorsport... we will never see these types of cars racing down under.

*insert dribbler icon here

Sorry to be logical when you want to be abusive and get into name calling. Touring car racing (in its various forms over the years) has been the top dog here since at least the mid sixties.

During that time, there have been various classes and seris for sports cars (as that is what we ar talking aobut here) none of which have survived more than a few years - as this all happened before AVESCO it is hard to see how you can blame them for that.

The success of AVESCO does not have any bearing on whether or not there is a class for the GTR to run in - it may have an impact on available sponsorship dollars but that is not what you said in your post.

Once you stop your dribbling you may like to think it though logically. If you don't like the success of Supercars then you are fully entitled to feel that way - it is just totally illogical to blame them for the lack of class for a GTR to run in.

Speaking as someone who has actually put a deposit down on a new GTR with my friendly Nissan dealer, I would love to see it competing in something but if it doesn't I won't be bailing up TC to blame him.

[Peddler]

well you should blame TC becuase you never will see them racing in GT format and he is the reason!

[Suttory]

I just did a quick search on the research cars mode on carsales and found the only cars that have fitted V8Supercars Australias car type guidelines in the past few years has been the Commodore, Falcon, Chrysler 300C and the MG ZT260. Now that there's only three cars that would be suited, maybe CAMS should start to be a bit open minded about the cars they let in. A system similar to the V8 Giants regulations sounds like a good one. But then again, with V8 Supercars being at its biggest popularity ever, why change the rules to let a car in that could end the sport up in a similar position to 1992.

But thats my opinion...............

[GTRMagic]

According to V8Supercar's

Originally Posted by Division C - Technical Rules

C 1.1 Technical Definition and Class
1.1.1 The requirements of this Division C apply to V8 Supercars, which are defined as large-scale Production Touring Cars comprising a specialised class of 5 litre, Australian produced, right hand drive, four door Cars, fitted with pushrod two-valve normally-aspirated V8 engines.

1.1.2 There is only one class of Car the V8 Supercar with engines of up to 5000cc capacity fitted to Cars of which at least 25,000 examples, meeting the definition of Family of a Vehicle (Rule C 1), must have been produced.

So there needs to be 25,000 road going cars produced.. here in Australia...

Which eliminates 380, likely Aurion too... with Camry the only other contender eligible under that criteria

[Bullett]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

As far as racing goes, it's a bit of a difficult car to make competitive. It probably fits into GT Performance but what about the dollar cap?

If not, it's a sports car but it's not homologated for GT3 and wouldn't be up to the job if it was. Maybe GT4 with the Mazza and Mustang?

I was thinking the GT4 thing to but it still cant run in Aus can it? unless state rounds etc.

[Uncle Cranker]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

According to V8Supercar's

1.1.2 There is only one class of Car the V8 Supercar with engines of up to 5000cc capacity fitted to Cars of which at least 25,000 examples, meeting the definition of Family of a Vehicle (Rule C 1), must have been produced.


So there needs to be 25,000 road going cars produced.. here in Australia...

Which eliminates 380, likely Aurion too... with Camry the only other contender eligible under that criteria

Now lets run the magnifying glass over this one.

1.1.2 is equivocal: 25 thousand V8 engined cars produced, in the "Family of vehicle".....

So is each defined model ( VX, VY, VZ, VE, BA BF, I'm sure you get it...) a "Family of vehicle"; if so, 25,000 V8 specimens of same.

I'm tipping that Holden hadn't produced 25,000 V8 versions of the VE before the first Supercar was raced ??????

Have Ford made 25,000 V8 powered versions of the BF

Will they have done the same by the time the orion Supercar hits the track ?


Interestingly, a VFACTS snapshot: sees reports of about about 11-12,000 'large passenger vehicle' sales a month.
With both Ford & Holden selling 6000 - 7500 locally produced vehicles each, per month.


Doesn't seem to allow much room of 25,000 V8's now does it.....

[F J Nedos]

I am a fan of the original GT-R from the early 90's as I have driven one. But I simply would not pay 150G for a nissan, regardless of how well it is specced or goes.

Could be a good pickup after 2 years of being on sale here.

I see it as a rather capable commuter.

[F J Nedos]

Also, I was interested watching the DTM the other night. I had the Audi with a V8 and all wheel drive. Was getting excellent traction / acceleration out of corners compared to the preceeding car (BMW) which was rear wheel drive.

But the beemer caught up with a better top speed - presumably due to less drivetrain to power along?

They had the balance a lot closer than I thought they would. It wasnt like the GTR's here early 90's which blitzed the field (most definitely including the turbo sierras which previously blitzed the field). So I wonder how an all wheel drive V8 supercar (of any form, german or whatever) would go int he current field? I didnt mind watching the DTMs do it as it gave variety in methods of passing with each car displaying strengths and weaknesses, while still being bumper to bumper.

So.. put a 5 litre pushrod 2 valver bent 8 in a gtr (why they would want to take a backward step is another argument for another day) (without any turbos), make it the same weight, brakes, gearbox etc and see how it goes. Kind of doesnt fit in the rules, but it would be interesting nonetheless.

[RotorFan]

Another example of a manufacturer wanting to race but not having a place to do it. Motorsport in Australia could be so much bigger and better.

Maybe Nissan should buy V8 Supercars Australia and force the GTR in. Thats what I'd do if I had more money than sense. You'd have to do something about the name though i suppose. Australian Touring Car Championship has a nice ring to it.

[STEVO]

Yeah I prefer the Australian Touring Cars but I guess they're now purpose formula built Vee Eight Supercars.

Remember that in car camera of Seton at Bathurst 95? And you can see the trim inside the car and it's stock standard EF Falcon. For some reason I liked that, felt more of a link back to the manufacturer.

And have a look at Skaife's new car. A roll cage with a thin strip of plastic called a dashboard. Very techie and modern .... but nothing to do with Touring Cars.

But that's my 2 cents.

[Peddler]

Stevo and Rotorfan... i am hearing you both!

Australian motorsport could be so much more than what it is but i am afraid with the limited population and audience combined with the fact that V8Supertaxies dominate the landscape, taking the majority of sponsorship dollars on offer which restricts everything and everyone else... it aint going to happen!

[RS500]

Originally Posted by johnh875

I disagree, the road car is being compared to the Porsche 911 Turbo in performance, so it would be far in excess of the GT Performance class (also the Bathurst 12 Hour as mentioned in the article).

I think its most appropriate home would be in a form of sportscar racing. If the weight was right it could be ok in GT3.

the car has to be naturally aspirated and RWD to get FIA homologation so i doubt you will see a GT3 spec car.

Tarmac rallies would be right up its alley as well as Marque sports events. There is already a team planning on running one in Targa in 08

[mountainstar]

One thing with the nissan gtr is that it is not a touring car but a sports car. Wouldn't make any marketing sense to run it in V8 supercars even if that was possible.

[racer69]

They should let it run, at least it actually is a supercar

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by RS500

the car has to be naturally aspirated and RWD to get FIA homologation so i doubt you will see a GT3 spec car.

Ok, didn't know that - so then are the Gallardo GT3's rwd also?

[Suttory]

Originally Posted by Peddler

Stevo and Rotorfan... i am hearing you both!

Australian motorsport could be so much more than what it is but i am afraid with the limited population and audience combined with the fact that V8Supertaxies dominate the landscape, taking the majority of sponsorship dollars on offer which restricts everything and everyone else... it aint going to happen!

It would be great to see all types of cars back in the Australian Touring car Championship. I wish CAMS and the ARDC would encourage rule changes to make all these cars elligable. I understand that V8 Supercars is a great marketable title, but they need to make the rules more flexiable for different manufactuers to join in with their cars.

Keep the engine, tyres, weight regulations, but make it so companies can enter a car without the silly 25,000 car regulation and the fact that they must produce a V8 on a road going example to make it eligable. Imagine a Falcon vs Commodore vs 380 vs 300C vs Aurion battle at Bathurst. Takes you back to the days of Ford vs Holden vs Nissan vs BMW vs Alfa Romeo vs Mitsubishi vs Toyota vs Rover.

[mountainstar]

Everything I've read indicates V8 Supercars would welcome another manufacturer as long as there would be a positive contribution in all aspects to the sport. It's like Nascar, they have a formula that works so why change it to suit one new manufacturer?

[Suttory]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Everything I've read indicates V8 Supercars would welcome another manufacturer as long as there would be a positive contribution in all aspects to the sport. It's like Nascar, they have a formula that works so why change it to suit one new manufacturer?

We shouldn't change it for one new manufacturer as I think V8Supercars Australia has a great formula for great racing but I think that rules that say that you must have at least 25000 examples on the road and it must have a V8 motor on a road going example should be re considered to let a wider spectrum of manufactuers into the sport. Because, as we know, Toyota can make a good V8, as well as Mitsubishi can source a V8 from Chrysler. That was one of the major hurdles that Mitsubishi came to when they were seriously considering a touring car programme back in the early '00.