Rallycross promotion. Who's responsability? (split from Superprix thread)

[M.Lowe]

Years ago in MN the Rallycross reports where a lot bigger

Even the RX Grandprix so I cant see why now the write ups and reports have to be smaller.

I'm not having a go at Tim as I do not know him personally but hes lnown to MN for a lot of years so surely they should of giving him a fair bigger space but then again I dont know what his original write up for the events where like.

[madcowie2007]

Whilst at croft last weekend I asked the camera man who he was filiming for. He told me Motors TV and Channel 5. He didnt know when it was going to be showed. Do we now know?

For me the BBC is going downhill fast and maybe they should start signing up some of the lesser sports like rallycross. They dont seem to show anything anymore. Infact apart from MotoGP what other motorsports do we find on the license paying channel?

Come on channel 5, if you can show us all the other minority sports how about showing us the ERC?

From an outsider point of view (as in non driver) I couldnt see stock hatch appealing to a program like top gear. But bloody hell surely they could get excited by an S40 or a supercar!!

Madcowie

[B Friendly]

Originally Posted by madcowie2007

From an outsider point of view (as in non driver) I couldnt see stock hatch appealing to a program like top gear. But bloody hell surely they could get excited by an S40 or a supercar!!

Madcowie

It worked for Fifth Gear! However i do realise that Top Gear and Fifth Gear are different types of automotive program, i.e. the way they are presented/produced.

[Martin C]

Trouble with putting rallycross on Top Gear, if the car say supercar was put on the track it woldnt set the world on fire. That board times are all done by road/track cars with the main thing about those cars being speed ie outright speed. Rallycross cars would run out of gears rev/s down those straights. Be better used in one of the wacky challenges like the old toboggan run versus rallycar. But personally the program isnt about promoting a sport is just quick entertainment now aimed at mass market.
Your average sunday night audiance already knows about motorsport etc and those that watch that dont probably would never venture to a track to watch. Best way forward is TV but thats hard and expensive to get.

[chunder]

I think Ian you are hitting the nail on the head, MN is run largely now by national racing enthusiasts, hence the over the top propensity for meeting reports and news in the mag. They ahve always been a great location fo national racing but the emphasis is now SO much on that, everything else has suffered. There must be a reason...

If you look at numbers there are just as many speccies at other kind of events, indeed circuit racing must surely have the lowest attendance.

Problem is that people that go are largely more wealthy, certainly the people that compete are, hence the focus on that area.

People who watch rallycross or rally, or short oval etc are not gonna boethr buying a paper with two articles in it. When they started doing karting their readership went up coz all the kids wanted to see their name in print and didnt have to pay 3 quid to buy Autosport, it worled a treat!

As for a person doing PR for championships I would gladly have a go at something like this, but sadly havent got the experience or clout to get my foot in the door. Its been a while since I contributed anything and MN usually mess up payment etc anyway so why would I bother! I am currently getting the qualifications in journalism to try and get into this kind of thing though so hopefully may be able to help in future?


I have the same problem in short oval stuff, no central person to send out releases etc, its stupid! We are hoping to get there at the NEC.

[JAG]

As a very casual rallycross fan I would say until there is a united series and British round of the Euro Championship, rallycross will never get the coverage it deserves.

At the moment it can be confusing with two championships and so many rounds, to the point were I only make a point of watching the Euro series on World Motorsport (Sky Sports), the Superprix, and the early Bank Holiday Lyden meeting.

The rest become a blur with no identity of their own.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I don't know what the sponsorship market is like for bowls (??) but it is difficult to see why their sport is in an instrinsically stronger position than ours. Rallycross has a broad appeal across the age ranges and involves a highly visible product (cars!) that everyone has to buy. We have a fast-moving, colourful, media-friendly sport. But if its not marketed effectively we are lost...

The series has extremely cool cars, but how many factories support them?

As an Evo owner I, and I know for a fact many other Evo owners, have taken great interest in Steve Hills Evo 9, but are Mitsubishi UK helping out with a little promotion etc?

Rallycross has to get it's act together as the drift scene in increasing at a dramatic rate. Right now tuners etc.are supporting cars, but how long will it be before manufactuers offer support.

Rallycross has a brilliant product, and has been established for a long time, but it hasn't capatilised on this potential for many years.

[BOY BLUNDER]

Hi jag are you one of the many evo's that line up side by side in the middle of the feild at the bank holiday meets at lydden?.

BB....

[JAG]

No, too far to travel unfortunately.

[dougs]

I see theres a nice little article in todays Daily Star Sunday about kenneth Hansen and his C4. I know its not much but a national paper giving up column space for Rallycross can only be good. Getting Rallycross to the masses! Maybe a web address would have been good to point people in the right direction to get more info.

[Peter Mallett]

This one would be a good place to start.

[craig hope]

I have marshaled at all events at croft this year and i don't think it is just rallycross that is not getting good coverage. i would say it had the 3rd biggest crowd of the season to the BSB and the BTCC.

So maybe it is time for all rallycross drivers and supporters to try to get more events in the media.. Can we all not work together to get this, maybe if more people not just Mark try. We will get there in the end.

Maybe local press to start as like most things they all start at the bottom of the ladder....

[Thundersports]

I agree Terry Briggs gets a photo and mention in the local paper from time to time but that's due to Terry making the effort to contact them himself, and thus increasing the profile of the sport.

[ebby]

BRC meetings at Lydden are not even in the local Kent papers, marketing for them is pretty much non-existent and there are no posters anywhere. Invicta FM turned up a couple of times but nothing on the radio, whichever series races there needs to sort it out. The number of people who live in the area and don't even know what rallycross is let alone that rallycross is on is shocking considering its the best spectating venue in the UK.

[:) RallyX]

Originally Posted by ebby

BRC meetings at Lydden are not even in the local Kent papers, marketing for them is pretty much non-existent and there are no posters anywhere. Invicta FM turned up a couple of times but nothing on the radio, whichever series races there needs to sort it out. The number of people who live in the area and don't even know what rallycross is let alone that rallycross is on is shocking considering its the best spectating venue in the UK.

If I can remember rightly, at Lydden in April this year, the A2 was almost shut by the council/police due to the amount of spectators.. maybe you need to open your eyes a little because you obviously have not seen the advertisements in the KM, East Kent Gazette, Track and Race Car Magazine, Fast Ford, Performance Ford aswell as being mentioned on Mercury FM, and being friends with Neil from Invicta FM means that I can get Lydden events mentioned whenever I want, oh and dont you (as a local yourself) remember seeing at least 10 8'x8' bright yellow boards put up around kent advertising the Rallycross event. Please remember that I do promotion with ZERO budget, and I actually think I do bloody well considering. If you do have any ideas ebby, considering you know obviously nothing, then please contact me.

BEFORE YOU CRITISE, DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

I do just want to thank people that have helped me promote the events at Lydden.
Oh and just to add that its not hard to get mentions in Magazines, if anyone needs my help just ask, I dont bite!!

[BOY BLUNDER]

Morning Rallyx,well said,i think people must have there eyes shut if they could'nt see any promotion for last years meeting at lydden,but may be its time to slag the BRDA off again,see you all soon,.

BB....

[BertMk2]

Can we keep this to the topic in hand please and not head off into inter series squabbling please

The Lydden events last year certainly had coverage (I saw TV and newspaper coverage before the event) and the Easter round had the biggest crowd I've ever seen at Lydden. More of the same is needed this year to keep rallycross in the public eye, additional stuff like the Santa Pod race against the F1 car and the Ford Fair and Rallyday appearances help too and should be continued. Any chance of getting some rallycross cars at the Goodwood Festival Of Speed? Are there any plans to have any cars at the Autosport show in January? In the live action arena or in the halls?

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by :) RallyX

Please remember that I do promotion with ZERO budget, and I actually think I do bloody well considering.

But this is the problem... you cannot run a meaningful and sustained promotional campaign without a budget. Lydden BRC is well promoted because of your efforts - and that's great - but what about the other rounds? Until the BRC wake up to the need for a professional promotional effort the series will not progress. If you were in charge of a national business chain would you promote it through local volunteer effort and word of mouth?

This is one area where competition between the British Open Championship and the MSA Championship may do some good for the sport as a whole.

[Thundersports]

There seemed to be a few posters around west Kent promoting the Open series in September, the BRC used to have posters as Terry used to drop one down to me and i'd display it at work, but I haven't seen any this season.

One point though if every Lydden meeting like April was supported and grew larger and larger crowds the venues infrastructures would be unable to cope, like at Lydden this year with overflowing toilets, huge queues etc......

[ebby]

Originally Posted by :) RallyX

If I can remember rightly, at Lydden in April this year, the A2 was almost shut by the council/police due to the amount of spectators.. maybe you need to open your eyes a little because you obviously have not seen the advertisements in the KM, East Kent Gazette, Track and Race Car Magazine, Fast Ford, Performance Ford aswell as being mentioned on Mercury FM, and being friends with Neil from Invicta FM means that I can get Lydden events mentioned whenever I want, oh and dont you (as a local yourself) remember seeing at least 10 8'x8' bright yellow boards put up around kent advertising the Rallycross event. Please remember that I do promotion with ZERO budget, and I actually think I do bloody well considering. If you do have any ideas ebby, considering you know obviously nothing, then please contact me.

BEFORE YOU CRITISE, DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

I do just want to thank people that have helped me promote the events at Lydden.
Oh and just to add that its not hard to get mentions in Magazines, if anyone needs my help just ask, I dont bite!!

Road almost shut, it either was shut or it wasn't. There was nothing in the Dover Express, Folkestone Herald, East Kent Mercury or any of the free local papers around Dover, Deal, Folkestone or Canterbury. Mercury FM is not even based in Kent. Never even heard of the East Kent Gazette and the Ford magazines you mention have a very limited readership. Therefore there wasn't much in the way of advertising to the local general public. There used to be posters up around the local towns nearly always featuring Pat Doran in recent years but not seen any in the last few. I certainly didn't see a thing for the May event and same again in August. The number of locals that used to watch rallycross in the good old days they say didn't even know it was still going at Lydden when I told them I was going. Didn't see Meridian (local ITV) there or BBC South East Today either so I think more could be done. We pay for tickets to go and see rallycross maybe some of this should go towards better advertising or a Media Manager.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ebby

We pay for tickets to go and see rallycross maybe some of this should go towards better advertising or a Media Manager.

Ticket money goes to the circuit - not the organisers so if anyone was going to promote to meeting you'd hope it would be them (although that doesn't seem to be the case - I guess the circuits cover their costs with the hire fee).

I think there was something in the Kent Messenger about the Easter meeting, they also used to have money off vouchers in the KM but I don't think that's happened for a few years now. Meridian have been down to Lydden for rallycross and circuit racing (BARC) in the last couple of years so can clearly be persuaded to turn up - especially if it's mentioned there are local drivers.

[King Arthur]

I hope the following may help it is not a criticism of anybody just what I have learnt over the years.

Those of you who know me are aware that I have been around Rallycross and Lydden in particular for many years including what is generally accepted as the "great years of the 1980s". in those days and with the help of TEAC I brought in Sphere Drake Insurance as a major sponsor for not only the European round but also as a driver sponsor. Although we were best know for sponsoring John Welch from time to time we helped other drivers financially particularly when they had had a problem.

The greatest frustration was getting coverage in the motorsports press. I could get multi page coverage in the Insurance press but Motoring News (I think) as it was then even refused to put the Company name on its reports and this at a time when were getting up to 3 hours live coverage on Grandstand. Autosport just turned their nose up at us - and remember rallycross still has the most played sporting clip of all time thanks to Keith Ripp and his mini.

It is a continual concern to me that a 12 car rally in the middle of whatsit forest gets as much if not more coverage than a British or Open Championship round. When I last asked I was told that a market survey by MN had shown that the majority of its reader were rally fans so that is what they concentrate on.

As for local coverage I was born and bred in Folkestone and never saw anything in the press yet the crowds were huge.

I think we now come to the real problem and it is not new. As with most things it is money related. The majority of the money from the gate (public attendance) remains with the circuit owner (not just Lydden but UK wide). Therefore there is little incentive for the organising club who have already paid the circuit their fee to bring in spectators because all it does is enrichen the circuit owners. Not a moan just a fact. Can you imagine a football club not being in receipt of the gate money.

In the 80's I tried to buy out the owner (at that time Bill Chesson) saying that we will pay you a fixed amount and take the financial risk of the crowd and the on site vendors. He was not even prepared to discuss it.

As Amy says the events at Lydden this year have brought in excellent crowds so why should the circuit owners (and anybody else for that matter)spend money on advertising when they get the crowd anyway.

In another one of my guieses I spent some time talking to the organisers of oval racing and they go about it in a completely different way. They hire the circuit lock stock and barrel and have total control over all income and expenditure. It was therefore very much in their interest to get the biggest crowd they could and they spent a lot of time and some money on local promotion. Of interest I was invited to a meeting with them and even had to pay to go in.

If you were aware of the number of tickets that competitors and other ask for it is perhaps not surprising that the circuit owners hang on to every penny. It is not unusual to have requests for multipules of 10.

I believe that until all parties have a financial interest in raising the profile and advertising to the public nothing will change.

I have been to some fairly high profile events at Silverstone and Brands and the same comments are being made. I have even spoken to owners about having a free to the public day to try and excite people and hope they will get hooked but zero response. Their argument is simple I can hire the circuit for a corporate day and with less expense particularly on staff get more income. However how many people would want to hire Brands if it did not hold racing. The alternative argument is that Bedford Airedrome does very well and it does not hold racing.

Rallycross like all other forms of motorsport long ago left being purely a sport and became a business and nobody in business will invest in anything including promotion unless they can reasonably expect a pay back.

Sorry to go on so but people need to be aware of the reality of what is going on out in the real world. One of the biggest motorsport events in the country at Silverstone could not get the circuit to spend a single penny on public advertising because it was not in their promotional budget which all goes on Touring Cars and Bikes.

You may not like this but people will only put money into promotion if there is a revenue payback and that applies to Circuit owners, Organiser and competitors alike.

Please accept that this far from a Rallycross problem it is a Motorsport (and I suspect other forms of sport) problem.

If I had a majic wand and a money fairy I would by a track ( if you could ever get planning permission) and run it in total. Then watch the promotion because I would have vested financial interest in getting spectators in. I would also make the competitors put on a show BUT no entry fees just like the Ovals. You would have to be invited to enter. There might even be prize money.

I might even be tempted to try and find a sponsor and run a European Round and a Rallycross Grand Prix - Anybody got 100K looking for a home.

KA aka TW

[Thundersports]

King Arthur great post, if I had a spare 100K after buying Gollops old 6R4 back to race in Rallycross again i'd invest.

[winnie]

Idealy rallycross needs a dedicated rallycross track with good facilities, like nearly all european tracks.

Valkensvaard is an excellent example. They have the rallycross and motocross track very well packaged. I was there a few weeks ago and they were running a corporate track day / driving course which all helps with income. The rallycross track is proberbly used 10 times a year and obviously pays for itself.

Bighten is the obvious track to invest some proper money into as its central. Tell the owners of Lydden, Croft and Pembry that rallycross will only go to there tracks on a fixed price - if they don't agree then don't go there. This may seem extreme, but rallycross needs to look after itself.

[Westysprinter]

As someone involved historically in organising Rally X at Croft - they were very good on circuit prices based on the amount of event's a year, but tell them you will only pay X then they will just say go away and they will run another "oversubscribed" track day instead
Apart from the title im confused why Rally X doesnt have its own identity on 10/tenths, surely this is a starting point - seperate forum?