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Old 9 Dec 2011, 18:44 (Ref:2997670)   #76
Alex K
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Alex K has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Taking over Super Nova might be in his mind.
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Old 9 Dec 2011, 20:41 (Ref:2997728)   #77
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It was suggested before now that maybe Macau GP will be GP3 from 2012.
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Old 10 Dec 2011, 02:05 (Ref:2997847)   #78
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Where and by whom?
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Old 10 Dec 2011, 13:00 (Ref:2998023)   #79
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F3 is an FIA series run to FIA regulations and safety standards.
Why would Macau want to run a commercial series when they have F3 ?
Would make no sense at all,currently the best F3 drivers from around the world who compete in National F3 series compete in Macau .This I am sure will continue.
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Old 14 Dec 2011, 21:00 (Ref:2999917)   #80
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DS" should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Now the Italian F3 Series also runs as an European series. Don't you think we have enough international series? We have the F3 Euroseries, the European F3 Open, the British series with lots of international races, the German series that runs even more international events than the actual F3 Euroseries, and now the Italian F3 series. Wouldn't it be better if there was one European F3 series in addition to the national series? Now it must be an even harder time for a Formula 3 driver to gather sponsor, because there are so many international series to race at. What are the guys running the series thinking? If Formula 3 goes down the crapper in the next years, this might be one of the reasons for it.
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 17:21 (Ref:3000335)   #81
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Flavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridFlavio Galtieri should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Wouldn't it be better if there was one European F3 series in addition to the national series? Now it must be an even harder time for a Formula 3 driver to gather sponsor, because there are so many international series to race at. What are the guys running the series thinking? If Formula 3 goes down the crapper in the next years, this might be one of the reasons for it.
It does seem daft to me. One series with full grids for all the current year cars, say BF3 +Euroseries would help for a start.

The other thing is all these series have "Champions" and now I've noticed something called a "Vice-Champion" whatever that is. So at the end of next season we shall potentially have 5 F3 champions and 5 F3 vice champions none of whom have raced against each other....

It's getting as daft as Championship boxing imho...
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 19:06 (Ref:3000398)   #82
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Vice-champion? Jeez....

What ever was wrong with 'runner-up'?

Has PR mantra (posh for BS) taken over motorsport completely?

There can only ever be one series champion, I.E. the winner.
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 19:07 (Ref:3000399)   #83
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Japan,Euroseries and The British series are the only F3 series that run as far as the FIA are concerned. The other series do not use either current F3 chassis or engines ,nothing wrong with this and they at least give the drivers much better cars to drive than say GP3.
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 19:09 (Ref:3000401)   #84
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bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
i think their mere existance also supports the f3 concept as a whole - whilst the chassis is still being used in so many series, fia approved or not it's subsidising the r&d costs and keeping prices down. in theory.

does the euroseries still run out of spec rear wings or have they gone back to the proper endplates?
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 19:24 (Ref:3000406)   #85
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This year they have still used large wing endplates for more sponsor space. Not allowed in Macau . Next year not sure but Britain and Euroseries getter closer with Euroseries agreeing to run exhaust systems to the same sound levels as UK.
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 20:32 (Ref:3000436)   #86
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i think their mere existance also supports the f3 concept as a whole - whilst the chassis is still being used in so many series, fia approved or not it's subsidising the r&d costs and keeping prices down. in theory.
In practice who will pay for the wind tunnel programs for those new, shiny 312s?
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Old 15 Dec 2011, 23:09 (Ref:3000498)   #87
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The new 2012 F3 regulations restrict heavily aero changes, the teams are still allowed certain areo modifications but not dramatic ones as we have had in the past. The idea is to keep F3 as a true training ground for drivers and engineers but at the same time ensuring that mega budgets cannot give any significant performance advantage.
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Old 16 Dec 2011, 17:49 (Ref:3000902)   #88
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that's good in theory but has it worked in reducing budgets?
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Old 16 Dec 2011, 18:47 (Ref:3000930)   #89
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bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!bella is the undisputed Champion of the World!
that's the sort of thing you can only find out in the second year surely?
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Old 16 Dec 2011, 20:33 (Ref:3000972)   #90
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That's the type of thing that can surely only work in theory, though. In such a market atmosphere, you can't have both engineering and development and smaller fees unless you're a low profile experimental championship or have manufacturers directly involved. And considering the fact that I don't see any auto manufacturers or aftermarket parts makers directly involved with F3 outside of the Japanese and MAYBE the Euro Series, that's not really feasible, is it?
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Old 23 Dec 2011, 12:26 (Ref:3003531)   #91
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Time for me to wheel out my ancient hobbyhorse again. Forget the junk currently masquerading as F2 - I would like to see a set of Technical Regs on the basis of which which it would be possible to design and manufacture a car which could be either an F3 or an F2 car. What differentiated them would be:

1) F2 would be international series (or continental) with a world series, and F3 would be national, with a few international contests.
2) Engine spec to be decided in consultation with interested manufacturers, and in the light of current trends could be a smaller, turbocharged, unit, but F2 would have around 300 bhp and F3 260 bhp.
3) Bodywork regs would be similar in F2 and F3, but F2 would have more freedom to run non-homologated parts. The bodywork regs would aim to cut the downforce by 75%, meaning a real-world cut of say 60%.
4) Tyres would be single-supplier in F3, but free in F2. However, the number of tyres would be severely restricted, encouraging the development of long-life compounds. The emphasis needs to be on mechanical grip rather than aero.

This way, the design and development overhead could be amortised over more vehicles (only Dallara are currently able to that at the moment, with their grip on the one-make series), and teams could move from F3 to F2 without having to buy new cars. The current F3 Tech Regs are embarrassingly antique, and it shows in the racing, but the ethos of the series is still just alive and should be preserved. It's the only single-seater motor racing worthy of the name, below F1.

That would be ideal my Christmas present.
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Old 24 Dec 2011, 00:40 (Ref:3003761)   #92
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News reaches me that only a few drivers signed up for F3 in the UK. Silly underfunding money so far offered from drivers and management is not going to fund a productive 2012 season especially when UK F3 teams currently have unpaid outstanding 2011 debt burden.
The multi car Carlin fiasco and the Carlin - SRO scene could have finally nailed the UK F3 coffin, drivers might as well go where they stand a chance of fair competition. At least two regular F3 teams if not three are serious contenders for a move to European alternative series, a team sale and may be one or two could go under.
Plenty of F3 mechanics and engineers at a loose end in January and the new season chassis order book looking very empty they say.
Happy hols from Aussie Gold Coast
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Old 24 Dec 2011, 14:39 (Ref:3003919)   #93
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There's a separate thread about British F3 in 2012.
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Old 28 Dec 2011, 01:04 (Ref:3004689)   #94
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Great to see your interests in F3...

Sometimes I think some of these junior formulas have been forgotten in the constant shuffle of new formulas popping up every year while others go defunct.

It's good to see this fan base forum talking up the politics and technology of the sport. Formula 3 has always proven to be; "not one of, but probably the best" junior driver development program available today, and in the past, and especially cost-wise.

How come we only have 10 "franchises" around the world in this great "Formula 3 Global Network" why not others?, and why not one in North America when it's already on every other continent besides ours and Africa?!
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Old 28 Dec 2011, 07:30 (Ref:3004718)   #95
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1) There probably aren't more than a dozen countries with the racing infrastructure & finance to support an F3 series.
2) In North america so much money is swallowed up by NASCAR and its feeder series that any other forms of racing struggle for funding.
Also, there was a similar, but different, alternative in F Atlantic that made use of engines more easily available in that market.
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Old 28 Dec 2011, 14:29 (Ref:3004819)   #96
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Sometimes I think some of these junior formulas have been forgotten in the constant shuffle of new formulas popping up every year while others go defunct.

It's good to see this fan base forum talking up the politics and technology of the sport. Formula 3 has always proven to be; "not one of, but probably the best" junior driver development program available today, and in the past, and especially cost-wise.

How come we only have 10 "franchises" around the world in this great "Formula 3 Global Network" why not others?, and why not one in North America when it's already on every other continent besides ours and Africa?!
I couldn't disagree more. Today, F3 has completely lost its way and its purpose among a confusing plethora of junior formulae. At circa US$1M to run a car for a season, it's beyond the reach of all but the wealthiest daddies.

Take a look at this thread here started by Andrew Kitson. This was the International Trophy meeting at Brands Hatch in 1973 when the British F3 series was a support event to the main feature. There were two heats of 30 Formula 3 cars piloted by a field of very talented drivers. That's what F3 was all about and those strategizing for the future of the category would do well to look at why it was successful back then.
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Old 28 Dec 2011, 16:08 (Ref:3004855)   #97
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Not hard to work that out.
No GP3, Current F2 is cheap, F Renault ln the 70s
Formula Ford is in similar situation.
FIA need to take a grip and structure F Ford, F3 and new replacement F2 similar to F3 regs but with more power to be run by teams.
GP3 and F2 are OK but are commercial one make ventures produced to make money for organisers and not for driver and engineer training.
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Old 30 Dec 2011, 08:45 (Ref:3005438)   #98
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davyboy...just cause a 1 car entry cost £500,000 GBP in BF3 doesn't mean that it costs the same in other markets. Most F3 teams in other Championships don't do 20 days of testing, a trip to Macau, and develop their own aero pieces as teams in BF3 or F3E does. Not only that, circuit entry fees and engine lease programs are outrageous costs in Europe as compared to say Australia, Brazil or similar Technical Partnerships in America.
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Old 14 Jan 2012, 22:46 (Ref:3011734)   #99
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Pretty sure ES is pretty comparable in cost to BF3, and that and Japan are the only other true F3 series out there. Buying a cast-off car and fitting it with a bunch of illegal parts so you can go run in your one-make series is not F3.

It seems stupidly simple that there should be F1, F2, and F3, and that the level of innovation allowed, and the range of travel, should increase with each. Do the FIA just really not care?
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Old 15 Jan 2012, 04:42 (Ref:3011788)   #100
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Pretty sure ES is pretty comparable in cost to BF3, and that and Japan are the only other true F3 series out there. Buying a cast-off car and fitting it with a bunch of illegal parts so you can go run in your one-make series is not F3.

It seems stupidly simple that there should be F1, F2, and F3, and that the level of innovation allowed, and the range of travel, should increase with each. Do the FIA just really not care?
No, because they are now a business first, and a sanctioning body second.
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