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Old 26 Feb 2023, 11:50 (Ref:4144974)   #1326
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Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
Meanwhile slow Ford teams and Mark Rushbrook are non stop whinging.

On the flipside, DJR, Tickford, WAU and Grove engineers and management are silent on the matter.
Mate there's no argument that supercars haven't achieved parity in spite of what they were saying previously.
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Old 27 Feb 2023, 09:58 (Ref:4145060)   #1327
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Something of a poor attitude from 888 Race Engineering, given ensuring their Camaro does not have any undue advantage of any kind should be their top priority...

Quote:
We have to fly down [Jeremy Moore] for the VCAT testing, when we would rather have him up for the testing debrief. It's not real cool to do that, but we don't have a say in that, it's a disadvantage for us.
- Mark Dutton
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/drivers-...ars-mini-vcat/

Shockingly, team principal Jamie Whincup's attitude is even worse:
Quote:
It’s a bit late in the piece. Aero testing was last October or November. So to still be messing around with that this late in the piece, it’s nothing short of reckless because there is a point where we have got to build cars and get them to Newcastle. It’s all good to want to change the decorations, but there is a point where you have got to get the show on the road.

So anyone suggesting that you change the decorations around at the last minute — all they are doing is putting the whole system under stress that it doesn’t need right now. We were ready to sign off on the car on the last day (of VCAT testing), and we are still ready to sign off on the car provided there are no changes. But the other side wants to keep changing things around, even though it’s quarter to midnight.

It’s disappointing, but it is what it is. It’s actually putting a lot of stress on both sides.I can’t believe it has got to this point, but it has… anything could happen from here until Newcastle.
- Jamie Whincup
https://autoaction.com.au/2023/02/25...-parity-stoush

What a horrid, horrid attitude. The idea that Ford Performance should sign off on a vehicle that has a disadvantage is both preposterous and insulting. Those are disgraceful comments from Whincup, whose number one priority should be and must be the Camaro not having any undue advantage over the rival vehicle of any kind.

After all, the only reason Ford Performance are voicing concerns is because "Aero testing was last October or November" did not reliably and conclusively establish 100% equivalence of the vehicles (or a slight advantage to their Mustang which they would likely to be happy to "sign off on" -- which is suspicious of what the Camaro side might very well be happy with...).

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 27 Feb 2023 at 10:14.
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Old 27 Feb 2023, 10:18 (Ref:4145061)   #1328
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I agree with Dutton.

They've already run a successful VCAT. With time and resources so short, there's no need to run it again. Surely the results will be the same, so why bother?

After all, it's only Ford having a sook. Let one of the many manufacturers waiting in the wings have their spot
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Old 27 Feb 2023, 10:24 (Ref:4145064)   #1329
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They've already run a successful VCAT.
No. The process and result was observed by Ford Performance and deemed unacceptable. The VCAT was therefore unsuccessful.

Pray tell why would Ford Performance complain about a VCAT where their vehicle was found to have a slight advantage or be equal? It would make no sense for them to do so...

The only logical conclusion therefore is that the Mustang was found to be at a disadvantage or that it was inconclusive that the Mustang had no disadvantage due to unreliable data, which FP logically deemed unacceptable yet ATCC organisers bizarrely deemed acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
Let one of the many manufacturers waiting in the wings have their spot


I assume satire, given Ford Performance is the only manufacturer competing in the series where Chevrolet Racing is not actually involved in a funding capacity.

Satire would also explain the comment about the earlier VCAT being a success, despite the bellow, too.

Quote:
The last-minute and last-gasp program is intended to identify and rectify any differences between the new-generation Camaro and Mustang.

It comes after disputed, inconclusive and incomplete results from the original Gen3 VCAT testing at the Wellcamp airfield in Queensland last November.

AUTO ACTION has been told there were two properly comparative test runs from the whole of the original VCAT program.
https://autoaction.com.au/2023/02/22...ro-on-the-line

Only two valid runs sounds like far from a success. It's almost like having a wind tunnel with precisely controlled air flow is very useful...

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 27 Feb 2023 at 10:51.
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Old 27 Feb 2023, 13:02 (Ref:4145075)   #1330
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Only two valid runs sounds like far from a success. It's almost like having a wind tunnel with precisely controlled air flow is very useful...
Remind me which F1 teams you worked for?

Adrian Burgess and Tim Edwards both did, and Walkinshaw Andretti United boasts the CEO of Mclaren as an owner, you presume to know more than any of those guys do?

You mental cases think with this "GM biased" series that Ryan Walkinshaw would convince Michael Andretti and Zak Brown that they should leave the corrupt GM cabal to run a Ford?

Or that DJR, Tickford are complicit in all of thjs?

Supercars is 100% run by committee and Ford teams have the same amount of representation as GM does.

Rushbrook isn't happy until his team has an actual advantage, and that's his job. But given the form of 2019 his words have to be taken with a grain of salt.

None of you have any of the data yet the backdoor trial by media to plant the seed that Ford has a disadvantage is already done.

Just making excuses for when SVG wipes the floor with them maybe?

As happened the last 2 years since Penske left. DJR and Tickford can't take a step without stepping on their own dicks. Both literally threw away winning positions in races last year, where Shane would salvage points from a losing position. That is how you win championships.

Grove shows speed one weekend in 10.

Walkinshaw could be the best Ford team. Maybe after a long time in the wilderness they can peak again.
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Old 27 Feb 2023, 22:15 (Ref:4145173)   #1331
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I don't believe there's a GM bias.

I believe the VCAT is next to useless and the stubborn refusal from the series to move on is the problem. It leads to doubt, and whilst there is definitely some gamesmanship going on, it only gains traction because of the doubt.

And yes, the Ford teams are rubbish, which makes reliable testing all the more important - when SVG wins the first 6 races, all people will talk about is the preseason parity controversy, regardless of the fact he probably is the fastest.

That's not what anyone wants
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Old 27 Feb 2023, 23:47 (Ref:4145177)   #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Compromised View Post
I don't believe there's a GM bias.

I believe the VCAT is next to useless and the stubborn refusal from the series to move on is the problem. It leads to doubt, and whilst there is definitely some gamesmanship going on, it only gains traction because of the doubt.

And yes, the Ford teams are rubbish, which makes reliable testing all the more important - when SVG wins the first 6 races, all people will talk about is the preseason parity controversy, regardless of the fact he probably is the fastest.

That's not what anyone wants
SVG is a great driver but the only reason he was as successful as he was is because the continual whinging from the holden camps forced supercars to VCAT the mustang to a point where it couldn't win.
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Old 28 Feb 2023, 01:09 (Ref:4145181)   #1333
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SVG is a great driver but the only reason he was as successful as he was is because the continual whinging from the holden camps forced supercars to VCAT the mustang to a point where it couldn't win.
Is there a suggestion the concessions to the ZB Commodore, like the front splitter extension, and the cuts to the Mustang, like the front splitter trimming, all to counteract "the Scotty factor" were excessive?

Hopefully the two new vehicles are 100% equivalent! Given pole position can be decided by 0.05s/lap, it is quite critical that the variation between the two vehicles is <0.025s/lap.
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Old 28 Feb 2023, 01:39 (Ref:4145182)   #1334
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SVG is a great driver but the only reason he was as successful as he was is because the continual whinging from the holden camps forced supercars to VCAT the mustang to a point where it couldn't win.
So how do any of you explain that the last adjustments to the Mustangs occurred in mid-2019, yet Scotty Mac won in 2019, handily, and in 2020, Scotty Mac won with Cam Waters second in the series.

No parity changes into 2021 and 2022 - just Scotty Mac and Penske money gone.

SVG isn't necessarily faster than anybody - he is just faster more regularly than anybody else.

All of Anton, Will, Cam, even Dave Reynolds can show race winning speed but they don't do it often enough or regularly enough to deserve to win a championship. DJR and Tickford are famous for pit stop or strategy clangers that throw away wins their drivers put them in a place to win.

This parity crap is just desperately clutching at straws.
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Old 28 Feb 2023, 02:35 (Ref:4145187)   #1335
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SVG is a great driver but the only reason he was as successful as he was is because the continual whinging from the holden camps forced supercars to VCAT the mustang to a point where it couldn't win.
But the Mustang spent a whole year in the hands of Scotty winning. I dont agree with this comment as i think this is just a whinge at T8 for all the wins. The ZB and Mustang were pretty close in parity. 24 cars in the field either had bad strategies or tripped over each other.

If the head of Ford could see a difference in parity back in November, why has it taken Supercars so long to sort out? There is obviously differences between the two cars, how can they be signed off when there is too great of a difference...

Supercars has alot to answer with these issues and it makes the series look amature...
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Old 28 Feb 2023, 06:02 (Ref:4145193)   #1336
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So how do any of you explain that the last adjustments to the Mustangs occurred in mid-2019, yet Scotty Mac won in 2019, handily, and in 2020, Scotty Mac won with Cam Waters second in the series.

No parity changes into 2021 and 2022 - just Scotty Mac and Penske money gone.

SVG isn't necessarily faster than anybody - he is just faster more regularly than anybody else.

All of Anton, Will, Cam, even Dave Reynolds can show race winning speed but they don't do it often enough or regularly enough to deserve to win a championship. DJR and Tickford are famous for pit stop or strategy clangers that throw away wins their drivers put them in a place to win.

This parity crap is just desperately clutching at straws.
Scotty already had the championship won but wasn't the same after the VCAT.
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Old 28 Feb 2023, 10:39 (Ref:4145228)   #1337
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Scotty already had the championship won but wasn't the same after the VCAT.
He had to rely on talent, merit and debriss instead.
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Old 28 Feb 2023, 13:56 (Ref:4145258)   #1338
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Scott is a real talent. He got the breaks and made the most of it, plus made sure he took advantage of things that came his way
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 06:00 (Ref:4145334)   #1339
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Ladies and gentlemen, Roland "dirty laundry" Dane -
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/01...cars-test-day/
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 06:24 (Ref:4145337)   #1340
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Ladies and gentlemen, Roland "dirty laundry" Dane -
https://www.speedcafe.com/2023/03/01...cars-test-day/
Its hard to fault the sentiment though.
Showing up with 25 cars of unknown weights to compare against one another was madness waiting for an asylum...

The test day becomes not much more than a photo opportunity in that instance..
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 09:44 (Ref:4145358)   #1341
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Worrying! The first round of supercars is not showing up on my tv guide and is not listed on the bt sport website. Does anyone know if it is definitely being shown in the UK this year?
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 09:57 (Ref:4145360)   #1342
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I guess British TV doesn't care much about the series. BT Sport like to pick and choose it's sport. Can't see anywhere it's being shown here
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 18:18 (Ref:4145420)   #1343
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Its hard to fault the sentiment though.
Showing up with 25 cars of unknown weights to compare against one another was madness waiting for an asylum...

The test day becomes not much more than a photo opportunity in that instance..
He's right of course, I just found his comments a bit rich after his rant about airing dirty laundry in public recently.
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 18:30 (Ref:4145422)   #1344
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Worrying! The first round of supercars is not showing up on my tv guide and is not listed on the bt sport website. Does anyone know if it is definitely being shown in the UK this year?
You can always buy the SuperView and watch it on YouTube.
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 18:59 (Ref:4145426)   #1345
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How did they do it the previous time? I mean it's not the first time they introduce new cars.
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Old 1 Mar 2023, 22:58 (Ref:4145453)   #1346
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But the Mustang spent a whole year in the hands of Scotty winning. I dont agree with this comment as i think this is just a whinge at T8 for all the wins. The ZB and Mustang were pretty close in parity. 24 cars in the field either had bad strategies or tripped over each other.
2 years: 2019 and 2020. 2020 Scott 1st Cam waters 2nd.

No parity changes since mid-2019.

Testing the cars without minimum weights and allowing some teams to run super soft tyres while Fords deliberately ran around on shagged hards is just stupid.

But it was a test day and we won't know the true performance until Q1 in Newcastle.

Note that the senior engineers of DJR, Tickford, Grove and WAU are all silent on the matter of parity. They know what they have under them and they are happy after the engine map was sorted out.

For those who want BoP rather than technical parity:
https://www.motorsport.com/imsa/news...btPHgvwtMqXPtI
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Old 2 Mar 2023, 19:16 (Ref:4145526)   #1347
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Worrying! The first round of supercars is not showing up on my tv guide and is not listed on the bt sport website. Does anyone know if it is definitely being shown in the UK this year?
You can only see up to 7 days in advance..

Listed on here.

https://www.wheresthematch.com/live-...t-on-bt-sport/
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Old 2 Mar 2023, 23:46 (Ref:4145540)   #1348
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It would seem progress is made in terms of whatever Ford didn't like in the VCAT numbers - but no numbers of anything on the aero side being changed

Quote:
According to informed sources, this latest VCAT has yielded significant progress in the equalisation of the aero packages on each of the Gen3 cars.

However that's not to say complete parity has been reached at this point, with question marks remaining over engine performance.
https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...8cUQ-erDVHRqas

Of course Ford thinks they are down on power, because they're Ford.
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Old 3 Mar 2023, 02:02 (Ref:4145548)   #1349
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It would seem progress is made in terms of whatever Ford didn't like in the VCAT numbers
Great stuff!

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Of course Ford thinks they are down on power, because they're Ford.


The straight line should be easy to compare, just take the straight line data from the telemetry of both vehicles (on a flat level surface like a runway) and overlay it. Is the speed trace, including gear changes, from 80km/hr to 260km/hr exactly the same or not? Not rocket science!
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Old 3 Mar 2023, 05:08 (Ref:4145558)   #1350
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Progress on Supercars aero parity
The re-run of Supercars aerodynamic testing has yielded progress in terms of parity, Motorsport.com has learned.

https://www.motorsport.com/v8superca...rity/10438166/
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