[Official] Spanish Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 4 of 23

[chillibowl]

At that point of the race, it also looked like he was unable to reduce the gap to Max which i thought was the bigger tell.

I suppose his tires were shot (as were max') and he did pit right after ham got pasts...which makes his all be it minor defence more odd.

Why is he 'defending' a position against his, at this point in the race, faster team mate when his tires and strategy is compromised?

As with the Russell incident question Bottas' awareness of the larger picture. like Nico did, Bottas needs to be driving a lot smarter to have a (last) chance at a title imo.

[S griffin]

Bottas seems to have resigned himself to the fact that it’s between Lewis and Max now for the title. His problem is he’s like Berger, Patrese, Coulthard and Rubinho, in that he can be a number 1 driver some races and a number 2 driver other days

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by S griffin

His problem is he’s like Berger, Patrese, Coulthard and Rubinho, in that he can be a number 1 driver some races and a number 2 driver other days

Really?

[S griffin]

What I mean is he can be fast enough to win one day and cruise and collect another day, whilst his team mate is either winning or challenging for a win

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Casper

An interesting comment from Hamilton saying that RB are back into the bendy wing business. If so it seems that old technology does have its place in today's world.

It looks like the comment has been taken seriously and teams have been issued a directive.

Formula 1 clamps down on flexible rear wings after Lewis Hamilton's Red Bull claim

Nikolas Tombazis "We will be looking out for any anomalous behaviour of the deformation of the rear wing, in particular, we will not tolerate any persistent out-of-plane deformation that may be contrived to circumvent the symmetrical loading applied in the load deflection tests. Should we observe any characteristics that indicate exploitation of this area, we will introduce further load deflection tests as necessary."

It also seems that the comments might not have originated from Hamilton:

Christian Horner said at the Spanish Grand Prix that Toto Wolff, his opposite number at Mercedes, had spoken to him on the issue. "I was surprised to see his comments, but it is something Toto has mentioned to me previously. So I doubt it was Lewis' opinion. It probably came from elsewhere."

[chillibowl]

some video of the wing at spain.

https://streamable.com/6xb9xv

from reddit and in the comments they have some other links to rear wings flexing from other teams...suggesting other teams, including Merc, are using materials capable of flexing but still ridged enough to pass any of the load tests.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co..._vs_not_bendy/

if the FIA comes up with a stricter test/clarification i suspect Merc will be affected less than RB hence why Merc is the one (tactically) complaining?

these sorts of complaints are usually associated with close/competitive seasons so i guess we have that going for us which is nice.

[bjohnsonsmith]

This is an interesting article on flexi-wings


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...m-fia/6507093/

[Adam43]

Team introduces a bendy wing. FIA introduce a test to combat. Team works out a way around the test. FIA introduces another test. Etc...

What iteration are we on?

This is why the FIA reserved the right to introduce further tests.

It is a pragmatic solution. New test, but give teams a little bit of an amnesty to change the wing.

[Adam43]

Team introduces a bendy wing. FIA introduce a test to combat. Team works out a way around the test. FIA introduces another test. Etc...

What iteration are we on?

This is why the FIA reserved the right to introduce further tests.

It is a pragmatic solution. New test, but give teams a little bit of an amnesty to change the wing.

[S griffin]

It’s been a long time since we last heard about flexi wings. Tbh it’s not a saga I miss much

[Sodemo]

I’m pretty sure I saw the Mercedes front wing flexing a lot during the Spanish GP footage...?

[crmalcolm]

I've seen a few theories.
There is evidence of Mercedes having a wing that flexes, as does nearly every car. The talk is that Mercedes have identified the impact of eliminating the flex, and that it would hurt the high-rake cars more. So that is why they are raising it now, to get back some of the aero advantage lost from the floor changes this season.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

some video of the wing at spain.

https://streamable.com/6xb9xv

from reddit and in the comments they have some other links to rear wings flexing from other teams...suggesting other teams, including Merc, are using materials capable of flexing but still ridged enough to pass any of the load tests.

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/co..._vs_not_bendy/

if the FIA comes up with a stricter test/clarification i suspect Merc will be affected less than RB hence why Merc is the one (tactically) complaining?

these sorts of complaints are usually associated with close/competitive seasons so i guess we have that going for us which is nice.

Red Bull has the highest rake of any car so can also have the most suspension travel of any car

[ascarracinguk]

everyone will be doing this to some degree. whether its legal or not we will soon find out. if Red Bull have been stretching the boundaries the new tests will resolve that.

redefining tests is nothing new, its a yearly battle for the teams to find ways around tests, and a battle for the fia to counter clever engineers.

In terms of complaints, all teams complain about all the other teams...how many times have red bull complained over the last few years about mercedes wheels, das, the aston martin saga etc etc..

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I’m pretty sure I saw the Mercedes front wing flexing a lot during the Spanish GP footage...?

I think you are right Sodemo, said wing in testing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXngeVa8hOE

Flex looks way in excess of RBRs rear wing.

Interesting times.

[RWill2073]

I was getting frustrated watching the last 30 laps of this race. As soon as Hamilton pit a second time, and we saw how much faster he was, I began thinking that around lap 48-52, verstappen should have pit. At that point, he would have come out on soft tires about 7-9seconds behind hamilton, with around a second faster per lap pace. Turned out his last lap was even further ahead of Hamilton's at that time than a second. So he would have had about 14-18 laps to chase him down only needing to gain about 8 seconds with a second or more a lap advantage. Why did red bull not pit him? At worst, he would have still finished second.

[Adam43]

Would he have had 1s advantage for all those laps? Or would the softs have dropped off? I think he might have needed to gain more than 8s. Would Bottas have come into play? And track position does help, especially at Barcelona.

[RWill2073]

If I remember correctly, at about lap 46, he would have come out about 3-5 seconds behind. By lap 50, it would have been around 8, and by lap 54, it was around 13 or so, which would have been a second+ a lap, which meant it was too late. I may be off a little, I'm going on memory here. But at the point hamilton was within about 17 seconds, so around lap 49ish, he would have only had to keep the softs working for 17 laps or less. He popped in a 1:18 at the end, and I think a low 1:19 would have put him nearly a second a lap faster than hamilton at the time. Bottas was far enough out of it that even had he come out behind, which around lap 50 i don't think he would have, as if hamilton was around 17 behind, bottas was a handful of seconds behind him. So even if he had come out behind bottas, with his pace on softs, he could have gotten by him within a few laps.

Even if chasing down bottas killed his tires to the point of not catching hamilton, there would have been nothing lost anyway. When hamilton came out after his second stop, he was an average of 1.5-1.7 seconds a lap faster, with more laps to go than seconds behind. Verstappen was a sitting duck, so the only way he would have had a chance was pitting. Worst case, he ended up right where he was.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

In terms of complaints, all teams complain about all the other teams...how many times have red bull complained over the last few years about mercedes wheels, das, the aston martin saga etc etc..

It looks like the complaints will be raised with more ferocity in Baku.

It seems that the following teams have all been using a limbo wing:
Ferrari - openly admitted.
Red Bull and Alpine - admitted their cars will need to be modified.
Alfa Romeo - object to a change in the test as a 'joke'.

And the following have not employed a limbo wing:
Mercedes - openly state their design had the option to flex in the future if permitted.
McLaren - object to the delay in more stringent testing.