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Old 16 Jan 2020, 21:13 (Ref:3952006)   #46
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Crowds would be fine if TCR cars were competing for the main prizes at the Superloop 500, Supercheap Auto 1000, ITM 400 in NZ, Townsville 400, Gold Coast 600 etc etc

If it is sold to the fans as the age old series just with a different set of regs, the majority of fans will just blindly buy it
Possible but it didn't work that way for Supertouring did it? The time may well have come though, not today but in the next few years.
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Old 16 Jan 2020, 21:19 (Ref:3952010)   #47
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Possible but it didn't work that way for Supertouring did it? The time may well have come though, not today but in the next few years.
Super Touring was a start from scratch championship setup in 1994 to run seperate to the existing ATCC.

The scenario above was that if the “Supercars Championship” ended one season with Gen2 then started the next season at Adelaide with TCR cars, as we did with Group C to Group A, then later Group A to V8s.
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Old 16 Jan 2020, 21:21 (Ref:3952012)   #48
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TCR crowds were small last year

but they had minimal promotion or publicity and were only shown on SBS with shoe string budget

This year, with s5000 and TCM and other support classes, 4 hour live coverage on ch7, with a lot of promotion, it just might do a "world series cricket"
The crowd for WSC were terrible to begin with, sell out crowds after a year or so.
Possible and no doubt ARG would be looking to grow from the first year. I think that FTA on a mainstream network is going to be a big help, no doubt about it.

Procar went down a similar path but it didn't work out for them but in those days, Supercars was on FTA on a rival network. The viewing landscape is very different now but then, the demographic that is supposedly fired up about TCR (younger demographic) tends to go for streaming for sport so maybe the FTA thing isn't that big a deal for them?

IMHO, more than the cost blowout on COTF, more than any parity debate, more than manufacturers coming or going, the biggest BY FAR mistake made by Supercars in recent years was the decision to go with payTV almost exclusively - took something that was a "must watch" habit and made it a "maybe" or even "can't watch" - so very, very dumb and short-sighted. Thank you James Warburton and the board members at the time.
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Old 16 Jan 2020, 21:25 (Ref:3952013)   #49
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as I have said MANY times Supercars are a 'sports sedan'
In your opinion - however the FIA system (including Motorsport Australia) calls them a "Touring Car".

As mentioned by someone else in another thread, Motorsport Australia lists consider both "sports sedans" and supercars to be "Touring Cars". Both are still a Touring Car.
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Old 16 Jan 2020, 21:30 (Ref:3952014)   #50
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Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Super Touring was a start from scratch championship setup in 1994 to run seperate to the existing ATCC.

The scenario above was that if the “Supercars Championship” ended one season with Gen2 then started the next season at Adelaide with TCR cars, as we did with Group C to Group A, then later Group A to V8s.
Those previous changes you mention still had the "big" cars running - a swap completely to TCR or similar would not have that. Not saying it can't be done but I don't think retaining fans would be simple.

My reference to Supertouring was primarily in relation to Bathurst - the change was made to the type of cars running in the event from one year to the next and the fans stayed away from the track and their TVs. Long time ago now and IF it were to happen in the next few years, maybe it could work this time.
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Old 16 Jan 2020, 21:37 (Ref:3952015)   #51
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I posted a link to the NASCAR 2021 car in another thread & given that Supercars and NASCAR have been in communication in recent years (although to be fair, they've been in touch with each other for nearly 20 years, just not making a big noise about it) I would be surprised if Supercars aren't at least looking at what NASCAR is doing and speaking to them about it.

If the new NASCAR engines were cost-effective it might make sense to go down that path and run commonality of drive lines. NASCAR could probably find out a fair bit from Supercars about the items on its new car that Supercars has existing experience with.

Interesting times ahead - but having said that, we can all speculate in here until some form of announcement is made but until then, it's all hypothetical.

OK - I'll go back into my Summer hibernation now!!
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Old 16 Jan 2020, 23:26 (Ref:3952026)   #52
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Originally Posted by Tourer View Post
In your opinion - however the FIA system (including Motorsport Australia) calls them a "Touring Car".

As mentioned by someone else in another thread, Motorsport Australia lists consider both "sports sedans" and supercars to be "Touring Cars". Both are still a Touring Car.
I truly don't care what they call them, mechanically they are a sports sedan
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Old 17 Jan 2020, 00:02 (Ref:3952030)   #53
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My reference to Supertouring was primarily in relation to Bathurst - the change was made to the type of cars running in the event from one year to the next and the fans stayed away from the track and their TVs.
With Bathurst, The fans stayed away because they had the new start-up V8 1000 to watch at the same track a few weeks later. It was as if nothing was different.

How would things have gone down in 1997 if the new V8 race didn’t get approval from the relevant authorities and the only 1000 that year was the 36 year old traditional race on the long weekend, run to Super Touring regs?
Would the crowds and TV audiences really have stayed away if that was their only option for Bathurst?
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Old 17 Jan 2020, 00:32 (Ref:3952032)   #54
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The premier class, whatever cars it is running, will always have the best drivers, the best resources, and the most professional teams.

The crowds will then usually follow.
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Old 31 Jan 2020, 11:46 (Ref:3954747)   #55
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The premier class, whatever cars it is running, will always have the best drivers, the best resources, and the most professional teams.

The crowds will then usually follow.
Is there still a chance Supercars could adopt GT3 regulations? It would be by far the best way to attract a wide range of manufacturers to the Supercars series (be they Mercedes, BMW, Audi or others), as the 11 manufacturers racing in the Bathurst 12 hour already demonstrates.

[Better than Class One (DTM/SuperGT)... better than any other option Supercars has for attracting manufacturers.]

Let's be honest, the local Australian GT series is rather dire as far as a fan spectacle goes. For it to be merged with Supercars, and become a professional level series (in terms of drivers) would be nothing but positive.

While it would be a shame to lose the local fabrication aspect of Supercars, the benefits would outweigh the losses IMO. Besides, a locally built & intentionally homologated Mustang GT3 (as one doesn't exist yet) would still provide for plenty of fabrication work at either DJR Team Penske or Tickford Racing. Walkinshaw Andretti may choose to locally build a Camaro GT3 and/or Corvette GT3 (assuming 888 becomes the works Mercedes team in the Supercars series).

The ATCC title would of course be passed to TCR, as Supercars would instead award the "Australian GT Championship".

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 31 Jan 2020 at 11:52.
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Old 31 Jan 2020, 23:42 (Ref:3954898)   #56
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Is there still a chance Supercars could adopt GT3 regulations? It would be by far the best way to attract a wide range of manufacturers to the Supercars series (be they Mercedes, BMW, Audi or others), as the 11 manufacturers racing in the Bathurst 12 hour already demonstrates.
Unfortunately GT3 racing only attracts manufacturers because they see the dollar signs. They don't support GT3 racing other than making very expensive things that go fast.

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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Let's be honest, the local Australian GT series is rather dire as far as a fan spectacle goes. For it to be merged with Supercars, and become a professional level series (in terms of drivers) would be nothing but positive.
Yes, the timed stops thing is just a mystifying total ****up that destroys the spectacle of watching the guys race.

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Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
While it would be a shame to lose the local fabrication aspect of Supercars, the benefits would outweigh the losses IMO. Besides, a locally built & intentionally homologated Mustang GT3 (as one doesn't exist yet) would still provide for plenty of fabrication work at either DJR Team Penske or Tickford Racing. Walkinshaw Andretti may choose to locally build a Camaro GT3 and/or Corvette GT3 (assuming 888 becomes the works Mercedes team in the Supercars series).
You're somewhere between hopelessly optimistic and insane.

There's already a GT3 Camaro homologated by Reiter.

The elephant in the room if you want to posit this is a hypothetical is the astronomical cost of current GT3 machinery, and eye wateringly high cost of crash damage, AND the much lower repairability compared to a bespoke race car like a Supercar. I sit here before lunch Saturday of the B12hr weekend and we've already lost 3 cars to crash damage and there's a Bentley hanging in the balance. You wanna have a proper GT3 crash and ruin the tub? $500k thanks. I reckon that covers both Chaz and Scott's crashes at the Gold Coast, and probably still have a lot of change left - and those are once in a season or less incidents.
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Old 1 Feb 2020, 00:03 (Ref:3954903)   #57
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What about taking the GT3 chassis and running gear and puttimg 'saloon' shells on them?

Audi A3 read A4..
Porsche with a Panamera shell?

Oh.. hang on not sure how the Ferrari, Lambo, Bentley would translate?
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Old 1 Feb 2020, 01:41 (Ref:3954912)   #58
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An hour later 2 more cars, #777 Merc out for good, and maybe a Marc car too.

Last edited by Mixer; 1 Feb 2020 at 01:54.
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Old 1 Feb 2020, 07:00 (Ref:3954960)   #59
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Old 17 Feb 2020, 04:45 (Ref:3957905)   #60
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There's already a GT3 Camaro homologated by Reiter.
That's based on the superseded model.

There is no reason GT3 models on spaceframe designs with American crate engines (as per the current Supercars, as per the Reiter Camaro) wouldn't be much, much cheaper than those based on Lamborghini or Ferrari exotica.
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