2017 FORMULA 1 AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX - Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[paddy]

Originally Posted by skycafe

I agree with this. The international slowness on exit of corner not only caught Vettel, but had the potential to accordion down the field.

Vettel should not have then retaliated with the wheel clashing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40400301

Anyone blaming Hamilton or particularly abusing him by calling him a moron should read this. Constant throttle, no braking and no different from previous restart. Vettel should have been disqualified in my view. Not for the first contact, but to deliberately pull alongside and then drive into another car under safety car is dangerous and totally unprofessional. It's one of the most blatant breaches of safety car regs I can remember.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I thought Lewis dealt with it well when interviewed in the pen afterwards.

He was very measured and not recriminatory.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

How come Ted Kravitz - who clearly
Knows everything - doesn't run an F1 team?...

Not sure what he did wrong in the interview with Toto. He was just trying to get the understanding of what happened from the team manager and spokesman.
Toto was fair enough that he shouldn't blame one person, but Ted was far from that.

[fieldodreams79]

Of all the bashing of driving standards I've read, not one (unless I missed it) was thrown Bottas way. He should've received a penalty for the first lap contact with Kimi. Plenty of room left and his mistake cost another a decent result while he (and good on him/team not giving up) finishes on the podium.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Shame people have a downer on this circuit. It's totally different to everything else, it's picturesque, and - best of all - it's an unforgiving circuit with unique challenges.

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

This race is more fun to watch than I thought it would be.

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

This is what happens when you throw a genuinely challenging circuit at drivers who have grown up racing on Tilkedrome car parks.

Just treat the venue with the same respect as Monaco, and we'll be fine.

Such a challenge and very unique. Street course a very hit and miss and this one missed last year. Didn't disappoint this year and I was a pessimist from the beginning.

Great, exciting race! More of this, please.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Not sure what he did wrong in the interview with Toto. He was just trying to get the understanding of what happened from the team manager and spokesman.
Toto was fair enough that he shouldn't blame one person, but Ted was far from that.

As I said in the other thread, it's a nice change. Normally FOM selectivaly play radio from drivers to make them look like spoilt children. Today we got to see the normally cool and calm team principle have a strop and throw his carbon fibre toys everywhere. Funny when the shoe is on the other foot and it's the boss that looks like a bit of a fool.

Asking why a seemingly silly technical issue cost you an easy race win is a perfectly valid question. If Toto didn't like the question, they shouldn't have made the mistake.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by paddy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40400301

Anyone blaming Hamilton or particularly abusing him by calling him a moron should read this. Constant throttle, no braking and no different from previous restart. Vettel should have been disqualified in my view. Not for the first contact, but to deliberately pull alongside and then drive into another car under safety car is dangerous and totally unprofessional. It's one of the most blatant breaches of safety car regs I can remember.

Constant throttle only matches what the TV telemetry showed if you consider no throttle mid corner and off the corner to be constant.

Having said that, obviously the stewards have access to better, or request the teams own data.

I would say comparing it to earlier restarts is a bit dubious. Hamilton may well have done the same thing, but where was Vettel in those restarts, was he further back could he see what Hamilton did.

Also even if he had seen Hamilton do that previously, who is to say that he'd do the same thing again. After all Hamilton being in front will be seeking to get an advantage and could change the way he was going to restart.

[Adam43]

Yes Hamilton didn't have to do the same thing each time. I thought Hamilton introduced too much risk into that, but Vettel lost any opportunity to whinge about it....

[Akrapovic]

If you consider being off the throttle on the exit of the constant, then thats fine. The car is constantly slowing down in an acceleration zone. That's eventually going to cause an accident.

Again - this is not a criticism of Lewis. This is every driver. They all do it, and theres no need for this randomly introduced potential of an accident. Vettel did much worse and was very lucky to get by with only a 10 second penalty, but I do think these SC starts need looked at. The bunch of the pack at random by a driver is going to lead to these incidents.

[Alfaholic]

From the BBC link given above - the important bit...

Hamilton was not penalised. The stewards examined data from his car and found that he had maintained a more or less constant speed, had not lifted off the throttle or braked, and had behaved no differently at that re-start at that point on the track than at the other two re-starts.

So no brake test, no lifting off and a constant speed. Hamilton did nothing wrong. As the leader it is up to him to decide when to accelerate as the safety car period ends (especially as penalties are issued if the safety car is overtaken before it enters the pit lane) and for the others to try to anticipate this.

Vettel guesed wrong or mis-interpreted the lack of acceleration when expected as braking and was in the wrong. Still doesn't excuse or explain his driving into the side of Hamilton's car 'though.

[Lancsbreaker]

There's a difference between tagging someone with a clumsy manoeuvere - Vettel's first action, and deliberately colliding with someone (his second), which is not only dangerous, it is stupid, as you could damage your own car as well as your opponents. Shows a complete lack of self-control - which is not a trait you want in someone driving at 200 mph. Completely ridiculous behaviour - and Vettel's failure to acknowledge even after the race that he had done anything wrong seriously diminishes him in my mind......

I think he got off very lightly.

Think Hamilton was very conciliatory in refusing to apportion any blame for the headrest incident - didn't see the Toto / Kravitz interview so not sure why Toto would have got upset.

[wolfhound]

If you look at the race we had 3 successive safety cars as on the restarts drivers were trying to gain advantage and ending up taking lumps out of one another. The net result was bits of car scattered all over the track.

Some of this debris can be put down to the new rules where there more aero bits that break off easily and full with front wings that are very exposed in close racing.

If you have close racing with a clean sidepod (i.e. no added aero bits) you are much less likely to have bits of car scattered all over the track. If the front wing was narrower then contact would be less likely also.

The other thing I noticed was the lack of speed in getting the track cleared after incidents. I think they need to get some of the marshals and their equipment over from Monaco to help sort that out. I did not see any cranes around the circuit for example.

I have always been impressed with the speed that the Monaco marshals are able to clear up a track going way back to Derek Daly's flying start where about five wrecks were cleared in the space of a few laps under local yellows.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I'm wondering, if the SC restart rules need to be tweaked, with a designated point on the track where the SC pulls away from the pack with essentially a LeMans style Slow Zone or VSC until another designated point which marks the start of the acceleration zone which goes through to the current first SC line at which point overtaking can start as it is now.

The lead driver has to stay as now close to the SC until the SC reaches its pull away point, but isn't allowed to slow the pack in the SZ/VSC or the acceleration zones, but it's his choice as to when he accelerates within the acceleration zone.

[Akrapovic]

The stewards examined data from his car and found that he had maintained a more or less constant speed

He maintained a constant speed from a corner into an acceleration zone. Whilst the speed was constant, it is an area you're expecting a driver to speed up. That's the issue. And again, this isn't anti-Lewis - every single driver on the grid does this and all it does is lead to confusion and the potential for silly incidents under yellow.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

He maintained a constant speed from a corner into an acceleration zone. Whilst the speed was constant, it is an area you're expecting a driver to speed up. That's the issue. And again, this isn't anti-Lewis - every single driver on the grid does this and all it does is lead to confusion and the potential for silly incidents under yellow.

Seems like he hit the brakes at corner ext:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDLpvqrXgAAAToD.jpg


Not that Vettel did not deserve to be penalized, but....

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

I'm wondering, if the SC restart rules need to be tweaked, with a designated point on the track where the SC pulls away from the pack with essentially a LeMans style Slow Zone or VSC until another designated point which marks the start of the acceleration zone which goes through to the current first SC line at which point overtaking can start as it is now.

The lead driver has to stay as now close to the SC until the SC reaches its pull away point, but isn't allowed to slow the pack in the SZ/VSC or the acceleration zones, but it's his choice as to when he accelerates within the acceleration zone.

Why not adopt IndyCar's restart rules?

https://www.indycar.com/Fan-Info/IND...s-and-Restarts

[Akrapovic]

I thought I saw the brake thing come up but assumed I was wrong with the quotes from others here saying that he didn't.

I go back to my original stance - if you brake on a corner exit, someone is going to run into you. That shouldn't be allowed.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

If you look at the race we had 3 successive safety cars as on the restarts drivers were trying to gain advantage and ending up taking lumps out of one another. The net result was bits of car scattered all over the track.

Some of this debris can be put down to the new rules where there more aero bits that break off easily and full with front wings that are very exposed in close racing.

If you have close racing with a clean sidepod (i.e. no added aero bits) you are much less likely to have bits of car scattered all over the track. If the front wing was narrower then contact would be less likely also.

The other thing I noticed was the lack of speed in getting the track cleared after incidents. I think they need to get some of the marshals and their equipment over from Monaco to help sort that out. I did not see any cranes around the circuit for example.

I have always been impressed with the speed that the Monaco marshals are able to clear up a track going way back to Derek Daly's flying start where about five wrecks were cleared in the space of a few laps under local yellows.

I was surprised by how long it took to get the track cleared up. You would have thought, that with a street race, F1 would have assembled a crew with the level of experience like that of the marshal's at Monaco, or hired the Monaco marshals themselves.

[steve_r]

Every so often Vettel likes to remind us all of his true colours. Just after we have had a few good clean races, he has obvioulsy decided that now is the time to behave like an spolit childish idiot again.

Good tidy race from Stroll. I am pleased for him.

I have nothing against Bottas, but I do not understand the reason for giving lapped cars a lap back under the safety car. Slightly undeserved 2nd place IMO, after that amaturish 1st lap collision.

Finalliy, Sainz seems to be on a mission to come accross like the biggest whinger in F1. He is nearly as good as Vettel at it.

[bella]

how can you talk about biggest whiners without mentioning grosjean?

[steve_r]

Grosjean has plenty to moan about, with Haas making his braking system out of cheese.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Grosjean has plenty to moan about, with Haas making his braking system out of cheese.

Any ideas why his teammates haven't seemed to have that same lack of sensitivity as Bigjohn?

[BillWiskins]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Every so often Vettel likes to remind us all of his true colours. Just after we have had a few good clean races, he has obvioulsy decided that now is the time to behave like an spolit childish idiot again.

I used to really dislike Vettel back in the day - the Red Bull years, I guess - but more recently I found him much less objectionable. Then, this! Is it the winning? I think it's the winning that does it. A sniff of the championship trophy and he reverts to behaving like an arse. He certainly knows how to cancel out any respect that previous detractors might have built up for him.

There just isn't any excuse. There is nothing that another driver can do on the track that justifies that. These are the absolute top professional drivers in the world - even if Hamilton had literally slammed on the brakes out of nowhere and caused a pile-up, a retaliation on-track would not have been the correct response. When you're watched by millions, earning millions, and bringing in million in sponsorship you have to behave a little better than a short-tempered child in a public sim-racing server!

What makes it worse is the radio broadcast afterwards - "Where did I do dangerous driving?" This is exactly the kind of arrogance that caused my dislike of him to begin with. Ten seconds was nothing.

[bella]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

What makes it worse is the radio broadcast afterwards - "Where did I do dangerous driving?" This is exactly the kind of arrogance that caused my dislike of him to begin with. Ten seconds was nothing.

and the interview on channel 4! he KNEW he'd done something incredibly stupid but he kept up the unconvincing pretence that he was the innocent party. he knew he was lying, and he did it anyway. whose reputation did he think he was protecting?!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Any ideas why his teammates haven't seemed to have that same lack of sensitivity as Bigjohn?

I have always been a bit of a Grosjean fan, but the point above has been troubling me for awhile. I have started to wonder if Haas might be better off without him.

Richard

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

I used to really dislike Vettel back in the day - the Red Bull years, I guess - but more recently I found him much less objectionable. Then, this! Is it the winning? I think it's the winning that does it. A sniff of the championship trophy and he reverts to behaving like an arse. He certainly knows how to cancel out any respect that previous detractors might have built up for him.

There just isn't any excuse. There is nothing that another driver can do on the track that justifies that. These are the absolute top professional drivers in the world - even if Hamilton had literally slammed on the brakes out of nowhere and caused a pile-up, a retaliation on-track would not have been the correct response. When you're watched by millions, earning millions, and bringing in million in sponsorship you have to behave a little better than a short-tempered child in a public sim-racing server!

What makes it worse is the radio broadcast afterwards - "Where did I do dangerous driving?" This is exactly the kind of arrogance that caused my dislike of him to begin with. Ten seconds was nothing.

"Where did I do dangerous driving?"