[Official] Bahrain Grand Prix 2020: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 15 of 17

[GT6]

That was a very strange race, the actual racing part was very poor but the accidents were rather worrying glad it appears no one was seriously hurt

[Knowlesy]

There is still an element of luck in the incident that can never be legislated for. He could have been knocked unconscious with that level of force and then the incident can be a lot more serious.

That would not have been in any way a reflection of the safety advancements that have been made which have been absolutely top drawer. The halo repeatedly proves its worth and I hope the people who said they would never watch F1 again after its introduction are feeling suitably stupid tonight.

So the bulletproof vest worked and thankfully the bullet was aimed at the torso and not the head.

[codename_47]

For all the good the Marshals did in the Grosjean incident, their copybook was blotted slightly by the raving lunatic who ran across the course to put out the Perez fire without authorisation

The race felt like it was taking place in the 1970s in some regard, quite bizarre set of circumstances today

[ggreen29]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

Incredible demonstration of the safety of modern F1 cars. Astonishing.

But terrible demonstration of barriers. The slicer-dicer Armco looked like it did when one killed Cevert. Then as Charum is talking about how the barrier broke up and dissipated crash energy, and how much worse it would’ve been had Grosjean hit a solid object “like a tree”, the cameras show solid concrete barriers replacing the slicer-dicer Armco.

At least after the race Vettel and Brawn seemed (the only ones) seriously concerned about the barrier failure. I’d have been happier if they cancelled the race until they got better barriers. Maybe Armco or concrete fronted by SAFER barriers or tire barriers. Sebring is almost surrounded by concrete walls, but with seemingly adequate tire barriers.

[ggreen29]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

That close up of Grosjean getting out, jumping almost literally into the arms of Dr Ian Roberts, as Alan van der Merwe, with the fire extinguisher from the back of the medical car spraying it over them.

Just incredible

Also a track Marshall with a fire extinguisher fighting the fire while Doc Robert’s caught Grosjean. No disrespect to the professionals, but they are pros, the Marshall was an amateur (presumably). Great show by all three, I hope the GPDA gives then all huge Christmas bonuses.

[ggreen29]

Originally Posted by rustyfan

Armco barriers will always be "softer" than several other types of barriers and racing cars of all variants have been punching through them for ages. On the plus-side armco barriers absorbs a lot more energy than, say, a concrete barrier, but, yeah, the major downside was in full effect today.

I'd like to see the SAFER barrier installed at more tracks. It's not an "oval-only" solution, it'd work superbly at all sorts of tracks.

On Skye Charum brought up the point that these cars are 140kg heavier than when they originally raced there. Maybe that is something no one’s taking into consideration yet. Cars will also be 25 kg heavier next year.

[Alfisti]

I haven't watched F1 for several years but saw the footage on the news. Can't recall an F1 car snapping in two like that, but have seen numerous break ups in CART and Indycar similar to it.

Glad Romain survived in one piece.

Maybe the SAFER barriers need to be a thing more globally, they're pretty much everywhere in the States (well the tracks that host national series anyways) and have doubtless saved many from more serious injury.

[ggreen29]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

My son and I are watching a bit delayed. Insane accident. I was sure he was badly injured or dead. Glad he was out mostly ok. Images are quite shocking. Safety measured worked, but give how it played out, he was still super luck.

I expect lessons to come out of this. My main concern is ability to spear through the armco as easily as it did. Kudos to medical car team. I say this with great respect for marshals, but the one behind the fence with the extinguisher.

Can anyone speak the how much practical training is provided to them on how to use an extinguisher?
Richard

There was a fat one hiding behind the safety car. Ran across the track and then milled about doing nothing. I understand fear, but if you’re not going to use an extinguisher at least toss it to someone who will use it.

Full credit however to the one with Doc Roberts, putting out the flames so the Doc could catch Grosjean. F1 and GPDA should reward him somehow. His bravery was consistent with the medical team’s bravery.

[ggreen29]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

There is still an element of luck in the incident that can never be legislated for. He could have been knocked unconscious with that level of force and then the incident can be a lot more serious.

That would not have been in any way a reflection of the safety advancements that have been made which have been absolutely top drawer. The halo repeatedly proves its worth and I hope the people who said they would never watch F1 again after its introduction are feeling suitably stupid tonight.

So the bulletproof vest worked and thankfully the bullet was aimed at the torso and not the head.

Lack of consciousness was the point Brundle made a few times. Reduce the flames enough to get in and remove the HANS device, if that hasn’t already melted around the driver, put your face and arms in to the flaming wreck to feel-find the seat belt fasteners, then wouldn’t you have to remove the steering wheel, get a good grip on the driver and drag him out of the cockpit. Doc Roberts couldn’t have done that with an open faced helmet.

[Akrapovic]

I don't like the "missed a bullet" idea, because the safety stuff all did its job, as brilliantly put by Adam and Greem.

The bit which was "luck" was Romains ability to self extract. He was conscious, but as you can see here, his route was almost completely blocked. He attempted to extract straight up (from his perspective) but found it blocked by the armco, so adjusted himself and went up and left (from his perspective) which was successful. Had the car been 20cm less deep in the barrier, he would not have been able to do that.

Every single safety feature on that car worked as designed - especially the halo. But in terms of risk management and the swiss cheese analogy, the incident almost made it through one of the holes in the cheese. It's easy to see how the incident could've been much, much worse today.

[steve nielsen]

The hero of the day: Dr Ian Roberts

[chillibowl]

Grosjean message via the team twitter account.

https://twitter.com/HaasF1Team/statu...604701699?s=09

[Adam43]

[bella]

Originally Posted by Greem

Safety is paramount. Today was the best illustration of it that I've seen in years, and years of watching racing at many different levels.

exactly. it's frustrating to see everyone throwing the "luck" concept around because it's the result of decades of calculated design decisions, each one made to reduce the chance of something serious happening to a driver, spectator or marshal.

i can't agree with ricciardo enough on this. since when did watching a man fight for his life become entertainment?:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...osjean-replays

i'm doing a lot of avoiding everything online tonight.

[Adam43]

I agree that this is important.

In this case, IIRC, the coverage did not show any replays until it was clear Grosjean was (generally) OK. I was watching with my kid and was conscious on this, but still I may not be remembering correctly as emotions were high.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I agree that this is important.

In this case, IIRC, the coverage did not show any replays until it was clear Grosjean was (generally) OK. I was watching with my kid and was conscious on this, but still I may not be remembering correctly as emotions were high.

Still much better than in 1994 when EVERYTHING was shown live when Ratzenberger and Senna crashed

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I agree that this is important.

In this case, IIRC, the coverage did not show any replays until it was clear Grosjean was (generally) OK. I was watching with my kid and was conscious on this, but still I may not be remembering correctly as emotions were high.

You remember correctly. Replays were not shown until it was confirmed he was out of the car and ok. At that point I think it’s fine.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Still much better than in 1994 when EVERYTHING was shown live when Ratzenberger and Senna crashed

So I hear. The BBC didn’t.

And I still remain grateful that back then it wasn’t on ITV.

[Dixie Flatline]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I agree that this is important.

In this case, IIRC, the coverage did not show any replays until it was clear Grosjean was (generally) OK. I was watching with my kid and was conscious on this, but still I may not be remembering correctly as emotions were high.

No, you're correct. I recorded the race as it was at about 2am my time. I had seen something on twitter about a serious accident occurring before I started watching the race when I woke up this morning. Sky Sports did not replay the accident until Grosjean was in the medical car and had been appraised by the FIA doctors.

Edited to add that, in addition, Sky Sports also cut the replay from the on-board camera before Grosjean's car hit the wall. The replay showed Grosjean cutting across the Alpha Tauri and then Grosjean heading for the armco barrier, but not the actual impact.

Ricciardo has a point that there is an entertainment aspect to it, but I felt that Sky Sports handled it as sensitively as they could have, given the circumstances.

[F1Pete]

I believe this is his last race. I don't think Indy Car will be a good choice either because It's far more dangerous. His wife won't let him race anymore. Surely he has enough money to retire?

Yes, all the safety mechanisms worked perfectly. The so called "lucky" part is that he remained conscious. If he would have been dazed and disoriented for another 10 seconds, the outcome could have been much different. We see the drivers struggle enough to get out of the car when arriving to the podium. Just imagine under life and death stress...or imagine being dazed where it took a while for everything to kick in. So yeah, he was definitely lucky in that aspect.

Not sure if anyone mentioned the marshal running across the track during the Perez incident. That reminded me of South Africa 1977 where marshal was obliterated by the car and his fire extinguisher killed the driver...and the other marshal was nearly run over as well. Hopefully they rectify those issues in the next races.



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[Knowlesy]

Yeah, I don't think Sky did a bad job at all tbh.

Found it curious they cut Grosjean's onboard short as I assumed the camera was destroyed on impact anyways. Not that it needs to be seen, nothing to be gained really.

Regarding luck: you need a slither of it for the unforeseen or the things you didn't cover. There is always stuff to be learned from accidents regardless of the job you do. So it shouldn't be seen as a slight or be frustrating in any way, the scientists and engineers have got it 99% covered, they rightly get all the credit but equally can't possibly cover everything because you can have freak occurrences. This was a weird old accident.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by F1Pete

I believe this is his last race. I don't think Indy Car will be a good choice either because It's far more dangerous. His wife won't let him race anymore. Surely he has enough money to retire?

But driving fast cars is fun.

[Lancsbreaker]

Great to actually see Grosjean at the end of the C4 coverage. I don't have a great deal of time for him as a driver, but I was so happy to see him escape that Fireball....

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by Dixie Flatline

No, you're correct. I recorded the race as it was at about 2am my time. I had seen something on twitter about a serious accident occurring before I started watching the race when I woke up this morning. Sky Sports did not replay the accident until Grosjean was in the medical car and had been appraised by the FIA doctors.

Edited to add that, in addition, Sky Sports also cut the replay from the on-board camera before Grosjean's car hit the wall. The replay showed Grosjean cutting across the Alpha Tauri and then Grosjean heading for the armco barrier, but not the actual impact.

Ricciardo has a point that there is an entertainment aspect to it, but I felt that Sky Sports handled it as sensitively as they could have, given the circumstances.

Sky sports didn't do anything here, FOM direct the world feed from the 5 mins to go intro until after the podium, then Sky take back control when you see their presenters in vision

The Grosjean On-board replay was probably all they got from the car before the camera was destroyed. Not really an editorial decision when the camera is obliterated.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bella

exactly. it's frustrating to see everyone throwing the "luck" concept around because it's the result of decades of calculated design decisions, each one made to reduce the chance of something serious happening to a driver, spectator or marshal.

I get the reasoning behind the frustration. The decades of work that goes into the safety aspects can't be ignored.

Originally Posted by F1Pete

Yes, all the safety mechanisms worked perfectly. The so called "lucky" part is that he remained conscious. If he would have been dazed and disoriented for another 10 seconds, the outcome could have been much different.

This is where I am. You can imagine worse accidents, but this is the worst I have seen in a long time. Heavy impact, serious fire, safety cell broken away from the car, safety cell entwined in a safety barrier. All happening at the same time. I believe we seen accidents that had fewer "challenges" thrown into the mix result in more serious injuries and/or death.

In the end it required many many things to go right (or for the accident to live within the bounds of what the preventative measures can handle) and most did. It would have take very little to have a different outcome. So "luck" didn't save him. The safety features did. But he was still "lucky" if that makes sense.

Richard