Nurburgring 24 Hours

[alfasud]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
A Nordschleife FIA GT round is out of the question - the unrestricted GT2 cars are too fast for the track (yes there is a GT2 Viper running but that's restricted).

My understanding is that a stock standard Viper GTS power output is 450bhp at 5200rpm, while the GTS-R (ALMS GTS spec?) is something like 650bhp at 6000rpm.

So what power output is the restricted Viper? What form is the restriction - inlet, rev limit, other?

[cybersdorf]

Ballast, and air restriction.
The Zakspeed 'Ring Viper runs at something like 540bhp I believe, and approx. 1300kgs. It's quite choked.

[BSchneiderFan]

I'm curious to know why GTS/GT2 cars are too fast for the 'Ring. Is the track too narrow? Not enough marshals? Not enough run-off? After all, the World Endurance Championship ran at the Nordschleife until the mid-80s, well into the age of safety consciousness. Ah, a Porsche 956 at the 'Ring...

[JMeissner]

ABT @ Nürburgring 24h?
DTM 11/03/03

The DTM Champions ABT Sportsline will evaluate a possibility of joining Opel and BMW in the yearly Nürburgring 24 hours later this year. Christian Abt of the team will drive a modified Audi TT-R in the testing and qualifying for the Langstrecken Mesitershaft event at the Nordschleife version. The modified car, which is heavier than the DTM version, has got strengthen parts and raised ride height. "We are thinking about contesting the Nürburgring 24 Hours," said a team spokesman to Autosport. "We are not sure if Christian will actually contest the race this weekend. We want to put the car on the track and see how it works."

Johan Meissner

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
I'm curious to know why GTS/GT2 cars are too fast for the 'Ring. Is the track too narrow? Not enough marshals? Not enough run-off?

Yes.
All of the above.
The organisers' fear is that the turbo 996s built for this year are actually GT2 cars in disguise (well what were the odds for that). There may well be a decision to severely handicap those cars, and the DTMs, after the first VLN rounds.

After all, the World Endurance Championship ran at the Nordschleife until the mid-80s, well into the age of safety consciousness.

...and it more often than not resulted in carnage. The last Gp.C race in the Nordschleife was in 1983, I believe. It was a crash fest.

[BSchneiderFan]

Is the Nordschleife alterable to make it safe, without, of course, losing its character? There would be so much to gain. Think of it; a race for the best GT teams in the world on the world's most famous and demanding track. Ah, one can dream....

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Is the Nordschleife alterable to make it safe, without, of course, losing its character?

Hardly. If you add up the cost of widening the track over its whole length, moving earth, chopping down trees, recontouring the the terrain in places, building a new track is way cheaper - which is what they have done! Commercially, the new track is probably more important for them than the old one. They are keeping the old track alive without taking away too much of its character, which is good; but upgrading it to the latest safety specs is basically impossible. And it would still be unattractive as a venue for bigger races because of the immense cost of TV coverage there.

[Cato]

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Is the Nordschleife alterable to make it safe, without, of course, losing its character? There would be so much to gain. Think of it; a race for the best GT teams in the world on the world's most famous and demanding track. Ah, one can dream....

I suspect if they could change it, it would no longer be one of the world's most famous and demanding tracks.

Personally, I think it is great that such tracks still exist, where drivers have to treat it with respect. It's a challenge and if it means the GT1/2 cars won't be there, then so much the better for our Alfa!

[cybersdorf]

What kind of Alfa will it be?

Someone I know did the 24 last year, with a 156 (finished 95th I believe); another friend of mine is busy memorising the track...

[Cato]

Alfa 156, with Brunswick Racing

[cybersdorf]

The same car as last year? And, will they bring the Lotus Elise as well?

[Cato]

Same car, more poke...

[cybersdorf]

Stay out of harm's way - Jörg Müller did an 8:32 in testing on Saturday.

[BSchneiderFan]

BMW seem pretty serious about winning the Nurburgring 24 this year. They've got a pretty good track record... I'm just pleased to see the M3 GTRs back on the circuit - and with Stuckie at the wheel!

[cybersdorf]

To give you an idea of what sort of weight the frontrunning cars will have: the Manthey turbo Porsche is required to weigh 1350kgs "dry"; so it'll end up at around 1500kgs in the race. This at "500hp plus" according to the team manager (although I'd say it'll likely be "plus plus", around 580 to 600hp I reckon).

[racer69]

Why are BMW and Opel (Now Abt with their DTM Audi's) entering this year all of a sudden?.

Not complaining, this is an awesome event on an awesome track.

As long as all the competitors know the condition of the track, warned of the danger area's etc.. i don't think theres a problem running a round of the FIA GT and/or ETC there?

[Stephen Green]

Craig, have you asked Rod Birley if he is doing the 24 hours this year? He may be able to help with travel, it's worth asking Faling that, mention it in the Marshals Forum as many of the guys there 'do' the race.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by racer69
Why are BMW and Opel (Now Abt with their DTM Audi's) entering this year all of a sudden?.

Opel has entered works cars in the past years, and has been looking into running a DTM style car (such as the old ITC Calibra); the current DTM is a better basis for an endurance racer.

BMW has supported entries as well. BMW didn't like the direction the DTM was heading in so they didn't build a DTM car; privateer BMWs (some of which are close to GTR spec) have been running in recent years, and not without success. Since the factory has an eligible car anyway - why not? They can't run their V8 GTR anywhere else, they might as well. At least they are putting it to use; and judging from their times in testing, they intend to put it to GOOD use!

[kmchow]

Originally posted by racer69
Why are BMW and Opel (Now Abt with their DTM Audi's) entering this year all of a sudden?.

As cybersdorf mentioned, since you have race cars lying around that aren't being used, why not race them to generate some more PR, practice for race staff and race data for future car updates.

Heck, I wouldn't be suprised if there could be tax advantages as well since you are depreciating the car further? But this one is more guessing on my part?

[cybersdorf]

some images

[cybersdorf]

First Nordschleife race today, and neither the Abt TT nor the Astra managed to complete a lap.

[kmchow]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
some images

Wooo, I notice there is a race prepped Mercedes sedan of some sort? C-Class I believe??? Anyone know anything more about that car? Is the Heico Sportive raced Volvo S60 in registered to race?

Why didn't the Audi and Astra race?

[alfasud]

Originally posted by kmchow
Wooo, I notice there is a race prepped Mercedes sedan of some sort? C-Class I believe??? Anyone know anything more about that car?

Did you mean this one.... no not the Civic, the one following the Civic:
http://www26.brinkster.com/f1pics/ho...-vln080302.jpg

Looks like a 190 16V Group A/DTM car, don't you think? If the big wing at the back is original, I guess that makes it an EVO II model. A bit like the one that's for sale at Race Cars Direct:
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/cars/d...?id=5029&cat=6

[DNQ]

I don't view this part of the forum alot these days, but it sounds like the Nurburgring 24 Hour is really taking off...add that to the Bathurst 24 Hour, and Endurance racing is on the rise again

Does the race have an official website? What about a provisional entry list? What date is the race? I could look this up, but I'm lazy

[cybersdorf]

www.24h-rennen.de