What is your favourite form of Junior Single Seater Racing?

SALEEN S7R · 26 Feb 2003, 02:58 (Ref:517864)

Ive included CWS (CART) in this as it does act as a feeder series for F1 - in certain respects.

1. CWS (CART)
2. International F3000
3. European F3000
4. Formula Nippon
5. Telefonica World Series
6. Formula Renault V6
7. Formula 3 (any national series or International)
8. Formula Renault
9. Formula BMW
10. Other (please specify)

Jay · 26 Feb 2003, 06:49 (Ref:517973)

So Formula 1 is the ONLY 'non-junior' open-wheel series in the world??

It's not listed there, but my favorite is Toyota Atlantic. Some amazing racing and a great bunch of people with much less of the politics and egos of Cart. Only downside is the cars are a little down on power...

Barber Dodge can be fun to watch too, but there's some real jerks involved in that series (officials, not participants) and more politics.

Formula Renault looks to be the best 'just out of Karts' category in the world (British esp), so I'm hoping the new 'Fran-Am' series in North America will continue grow this year.

Rob29 · 26 Feb 2003, 07:54 (Ref:518020)

Firstly the term 'junior'(in English)refers to activity for children.So only Karts should come under this heading.True some drivers came into F1 from CART,but many came from sportscars.There seem to be many opinions as to to what is the best transitional route for a driver to take.As a spectator with a special interest in promoting female drivers.looks like I will be following Toyota Atlantic more this year on account of Danica Patrick,the only one who seems to have a drive so far.

JR Ewing · 26 Feb 2003, 09:32 (Ref:518088)

Formula Ford is the world's best formula(e)!!

SALEEN S7R · 26 Feb 2003, 09:44 (Ref:518101)

For me personally, its gotta be International F3000. With Minassian, Paffet, and most likely Pantno in the series - amongst others the series is again looking very strong..

f1manoz · 26 Feb 2003, 11:40 (Ref:518179)

Firstly, I wouldn't be calling CART a 'junior formula racing series'. It's stood by itself on it's own right as a pure racing series for the past 20-odd years, and the only reason it appears as a 'feeder' is because a few drivers have crossed over the Atlantic in the past few years. But I remember days when numerous F1 drivers treked over to the States.

Out of the rest of them, I don't actually see any of them regularly. But from what I've seen F3 is quite exciting...

SALEEN S7R · 26 Feb 2003, 11:48 (Ref:518186)

Well, thats the whole thing. CART preiously may not have been, but in recent years it has become more so. JV, Zanardi, JPM, Da Matta - they have all won the CART title and then moved to F1, saying it is the pinnacle of motor racing. Therefore the way I see it, anything which is below F1 in terms of car technology and compeitivness is a feeder series.

There is now talk of Bernie buying CWS (CART) and making it a step in between F3000 and F1, which it effectivly is now anyway. Ask most drivers in CART if they would prefer to race in F1 or CART and I bet almost all would say F1, I woudnt call CART a regular feeder series to F1, its above all the rest in my opinon, but not F1. Still, the differnce with CART compared to all other forms of Junior single seaters apart from Formula Nippon, is the fact that the series is professional and u can actually live off of what ud get in CART.

CART is a feeder series to F1 I think, if Bourdais, Junqeria, Tracy, Vasser win the CWS title expect them to be in F1 for 2004. As I say though CART stands above all the other junior formulas, in terms of power - if not areodynamics..

fatboywheadon · 26 Feb 2003, 12:24 (Ref:518214)

british formula renault. but then i'm biast.

Speedworx · 26 Feb 2003, 13:20 (Ref:518283)

The onyl proper junior series that is listed, is Formula Renault.

The rest are not junior series. They are senior series.

DanFlag · 26 Feb 2003, 13:20 (Ref:518285)

International F3000

SALEEN S7R · 26 Feb 2003, 13:27 (Ref:518289)

I woudnt say they arent Junior series - if anything Senior Junior series. Most of the drivers in categories like TWS and F3000 are in their late teens up to mid 20s, so they arent exactly seasoned drivers.

Besides if u listen to the commenators they often apply the word "junior" to TWS and F3000, and Ive got to say I agree. They are drivers in Junior series aspiring to make it into F1. Which makes them junior formulas.

F1 is the Pinnacle of Single seater racing. As the LMP 900 and SR1 class is in sportscars, and the WRC is the pinnacle in rallying. There are generally speaking 3 differnt types of racing, single seater open wheelers, sportscars (LMP cars) and rally cars. Thats my point. Touring cars, well thats differnt and there is no real ladder for touring, only SEAT coupra cup, then BTCC and ETCC, DTM etc. I hope that people know what I mean now, I wasnt trying to suggest that drivers in F3000 and TWS and Nippon are Junior and arent any good, just not at the pinnacle, yet.

Speedworx · 26 Feb 2003, 13:45 (Ref:518315)

You can't call TWS junior, cos there is a series called TWS Lights, which is the junior series

Also the TWS organisors have said its not a feeder series, they want drivers to make a career in TWS.

F1 is top of European single-seaters.
CART is top of American single-seaters.
NASCAR is top of stock cars.

Mackmot · 26 Feb 2003, 13:52 (Ref:518327)

I cannot believe you missed formula ford of your list. Do you not have a life at all.

*formula3* · 26 Feb 2003, 13:53 (Ref:518328)

have a guess what i voted for!

okay, I tell you: i voted f3

apart from that i like TWS and f renault...and i follow cart too, but that has absolutely nothing to do with junior racing...and the award for the best young driver of the year goes to roberto moreno

and german formula könig is quite "funny" too...16 year old guys who come directly from karting are always exciting to see racing...

SALEEN S7R · 26 Feb 2003, 13:59 (Ref:518333)

Quote:

Originally posted by hakkiman
You can't call TWS junior, cos there is a series called TWS Lights, which is the junior series

Also the TWS organisors have said its not a feeder series, they want drivers to make a career in TWS.

F1 is top of European single-seaters.
CART is top of American single-seaters.
NASCAR is top of stock cars.

No, TWS is a Junior form of racing, just like Formula Nippon is, just because the drivers are paid, dosent mean its not a junior series, all the drivers there aspire to make it into F1, ie Zonta and Wilson.

CART is top Single Seater in America, but even they acknowledge that F1 is the top single seater series worldwide, and almost all of the drivers there would jump at a chance of a F1 seat given the oppurtinty.

u say about TWS organisers bill the series as a career, well funny isnt it that as soon as the best drivers are offered a place in F1 - even as a test driver they immidtley jump ship from the TWS and go to F1, great career in that case, all the good drivers will stay for at least 1 year!

Speedworx · 26 Feb 2003, 14:08 (Ref:518342)

Don't moan at me! I'm just posting facts.

Junior series = F.Renault, F.Ford, F.Konig, Barber Dodge, Atlantics, ARCA, APR F3

Development series = F3, F3000, TWS, Busch, IPS, ASCAR

Top series = F1, CART, IRL, NASCAR

Just my thoughts

fatboywheadon · 26 Feb 2003, 14:25 (Ref:518351)

I think that f3 costs too much to be a junior formula. It's cheeper to buy a whole F renault of F ford that an F3 engine!
Too much money to be a junior series.
Yet is reputed that F ford is a good £100,000 and F renault is defo £150,000+.

Plus F3's look ugly. renaults and fords are good looking race cars.

Team DFR Rules

SALEEN S7R · 26 Feb 2003, 14:27 (Ref:518354)

lol, well if u put it like that. Junior, Development, Top series. Then yes Id agree thats a better way to put it, but then, Everything is a development series below F1 so it dont really matter. And IRL as a top series?!?! and NA$CAR?!!? Gee, well lets just say I dont agree on those 2 points.

If u want to put it the way u did though id say.

Junior Series: Karting, Formula Ford, Formula BMW, Formula Renault, Formula 3, Toyota Atlantics.

Development series: International F3000, Euro F3000, Formula Nippon, TWS, Barber dodge Pro series, Formula Renault V6.

Top Series, F1, CART, IRL (Although i dont like IRL.)

Still, I dont agree in the way u outlined it all, but if I do it ur way thats the way I would do it. And thats only single seater related I mean.

*formula3* · 26 Feb 2003, 14:55 (Ref:518375)

sorry if i´m wrong, but isn´t barber dodge below toyota atlantics?...if i´m right you shoul put that to the junior and not development series

Speedworx · 26 Feb 2003, 20:02 (Ref:518606)

I think Dodge is below Atlantics.

NASCAR is a top series, lots of drivers (Plato) want to get into it.

Jay · 26 Feb 2003, 20:18 (Ref:518635)

Atlantic is the series just below Cart. Barber Dodge is just below Atlantic. Barber Dodge is supposed to have a bunch of drivers in equal cars, but it's BS in that respect. The cars are anything but equal. I'd estimate the difference between one car and another is as much as 12 places.

Personally, I would define a "Development" as the aim of the series is to produce drivers that can compete at a higher level. Thus Barber Dodge, Formula Renault, and up all fit in that category.

Junior series would be the ones where guys might just be doing it as a hobby (no big goals), such as FFord and Karts.

corkholio · 26 Feb 2003, 21:53 (Ref:518726)

Barber Dodge is entry level. Atlantics is more comparable to F3. Indy Lights was basically F3000 for CART.

I follow Atlantics rather closely since that's about the only junior category that I really get here. I like F3000 quite a bit but some reason unknown to myself I have to go with German F3 as my favorite.

cos · 26 Feb 2003, 22:06 (Ref:518738)

I hope this thread doesn't turn into another excuse for Saleen to rant about how great F3000 is... but staying on topic my favourites have to be FFord (for pure racing) and CART (for the cars).

Jay · 26 Feb 2003, 23:18 (Ref:518768)

I wouldn't really call Barber Dodge entry level... everyone racing in that series has some previous open-wheel experience of some type. FFord or FRenault are more entry level.

Atlantic would be really good if they beefed up the engines a little...

Lisboa · 27 Feb 2003, 12:45 (Ref:519254)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SALEEN S7R

Junior Series: Karting, Formula Ford, Formula BMW, Formula Renault, Formula 3, Toyota Atlantics.

Development series: International F3000, Euro F3000, Formula Nippon, TWS, Barber dodge Pro series, Formula Renault V6.

Top Series, F1, CART, IRL (Although i dont like IRL.)

So, in your opinion F.3 is junior series, and F.3000 development series? Oh, my GOD!

There's no chance at all....

View Poll Results: What is your favourite form of Junior Single Seater Racing?
CWS (CART)	4	8.89%
International F3000	5	11.11%
Euro F3000	0	0%
Formula Nippon	0	0%
Telefonica World Series	4	8.89%
Formula Renault V6	0	0%
Formula 3 (any national or International)	20	44.44%
Formula Renault	5	11.11%
Formula BMW	0	0%
Other (please specify)	7	15.56%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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