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Old 18 Jan 2007, 01:16 (Ref:1818074)   #1
rocketracer
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rocketracer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrocketracer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
'red wall tyres' idea....

I recently read an article about the new seasons' control tyres - with speculated 2 variants, a hard compound and 'red wall' tyres indicating the soft compound (as is currently used by bridgestone in the IRL i am led to believe?). Now i'm not sure if i understood the article correctly, but it got me thinking:

suppose all drivers were issued with 3 sets of tyres for any given race, with all being hard compound apart from 1 special set being soft compound 'redwall' tyres.

The thinking being, that a driver could use his set of 'red walls' to his advantage as he and his team saw fit, at the stage of the race that they saw fit.

Overtaking would be easier due to some of his competitors being on the harder compound as per their strategy. This could result in many varying strategies for the drivers and teams to play with, and could result in a greater grip differential between car and drivers, therefore resulting in greater passing opportunities throughout the race...

obviously a setup for a hard compound is slightly different as compared to a soft compound, but i'm sure the idea could be engineered to work.

this isnt a very thoroughly thought out idea, but more a speculation. Would be keen to hear what others think?

Last edited by rocketracer; 18 Jan 2007 at 01:19.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 01:31 (Ref:1818081)   #2
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I think its a good idea that would benefit the racing, but logical ideas and F1 never go together...
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 02:25 (Ref:1818097)   #3
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Rule 77d of the current sporting regulations states that unless a driver has used 'wet' tyres in a race,he must use at least one set of each specification of dry tyre.

http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...EGULATIONS.pdf

So in effect there is no option tyre,but drivers must use each spec of tyre during a race.

Last edited by Marbot; 18 Jan 2007 at 02:34.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 02:28 (Ref:1818099)   #4
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Chatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridChatters should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I thought Bridgestone were looking at implementing the "Red Wall" scheme in 2008, when they are officially recognised as the control tyre of Formula One...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketracer
speculated 2 variants, a hard compound and 'red wall' tyres indicating the soft compound (as is currently used by bridgestone in the IRL i am led to believe?).
Don't know about IRL, but it is definately used in Champ Car. Each team is issued with a certain amount of these tyres to use as they please.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 02:40 (Ref:1818104)   #5
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Thanks Martyn, you have answered my question right there. I was wondering whether i had interpreted the article correctly.

So, for the upcoming season, we should see greater passing opportunities as relates to the tyres and the differential in grip levels.... I had not heard much talk of this previously, which is surprising, as you would think that this will be the tyre equvalent of a 'push to pass' whereby, a driver will look to be more aggressive in his 'soft compound' stint of the race....
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 02:50 (Ref:1818108)   #6
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Originally Posted by rocketracer
a driver will look to be more aggressive in his 'soft compound' stint of the race....
You will probably find that a driver opts to use the hard tyre just once in the race.This,of course,will depend upon strategy and also which of the tyres they qualified on.

Last edited by Marbot; 18 Jan 2007 at 02:56.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 02:44 (Ref:1818105)   #7
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Originally Posted by Chatters
I thought Bridgestone were looking at implementing the "Red Wall" scheme in 2008, when they are officially recognised as the control tyre of Formula One...?
I can only show you what the regulations say.Bridgestone has suggested that it would like to implement the option tyre rule for this season.But as the rules stand that is what we have anyway,except that you can also opt to use the harder tyre on one occasion.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 07:11 (Ref:1818160)   #8
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Seems a bit of a strange, typically complex idea. But I guess it would be a good move.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 08:29 (Ref:1818192)   #9
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You will have,in effect,a sort of manufactured tyre war,but it is now more important for the teams to get it right,rather than the tyre companies.I suppose that the FIA have given something back to the teams and drivers.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 09:12 (Ref:1818224)   #10
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Won't everybody use their soft tyres for qualifying and the first stint?
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 10:10 (Ref:1818281)   #11
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Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
Won't everybody use their soft tyres for qualifying and the first stint?
Not if they were one stopping or had a long first stint, but I guess the soft option would be the one used the most at the start.

Does anyone know if the tyres will actually have red walls? It'll be really hard to keep up otherwise...
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 11:52 (Ref:1818374)   #12
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Originally Posted by Down F0rce
Not if they were one stopping or had a long first stint, but I guess the soft option would be the one used the most at the start....
Surely though even this years "softs" will be harder than last years harder compounds.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 12:56 (Ref:1818421)   #13
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Originally Posted by Down F0rce
Does anyone know if the tyres will actually have red walls? It'll be really hard to keep up otherwise...
I hope they don't. If the tyres have significantly different characteristics then we'll be able to work it out.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:11 (Ref:1818433)   #14
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I hope they don't. If the tyres have significantly different characteristics then we'll be able to work it out.
Agreed,only the FIA need to know who is on what tyre.
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Old 19 Jan 2007, 00:12 (Ref:1818954)   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Does anyone know if the tyres will actually have red walls? It'll be really hard to keep up otherwise...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAshmore
I hope they don't. If the tyres have significantly different characteristics then we'll be able to work it out.

According to an article i read in F1 Racing, no, they won't have the red walls, plus, if the driver uses inters during a race, he won't have to use both compounds as well.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 12:47 (Ref:1818415)   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide
Won't everybody use their soft tyres for qualifying and the first stint?
You would initially think 'yes',but some cars may not like the soft tyres,they may not like the hard tyres!

I hope that there is enough difference between "hard" and "soft" to make the races really interesting.It will be difficult for the teams to get the right balance on both specs of tyres during a race.The car/driver that uses the tyres best will be key to the championship IMO.

Last edited by Marbot; 18 Jan 2007 at 12:49.
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Old 27 Jan 2007, 12:57 (Ref:1827114)   #17
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Chillibowl, I think "where DC is coming from" is, excepting only in extraordinary situations, who among them is not going to want the quickest tyres on their car for the start of a race?

Kinda like on page 1:

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Won't everybody use their soft tyres for qualifying and the first stint?
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Old 27 Jan 2007, 16:58 (Ref:1827244)   #18
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Then, interesting to see tyres if we have late-race SC like in Montreal last year. The drivers are queued and there might be different tyre strategies.

Well, surely there is one "optimum" strategy but if you qualify badly then it might be clever to try something different.
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Old 27 Jan 2007, 17:41 (Ref:1827273)   #19
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Originally Posted by Bleu
Then, interesting to see tyres if we have late-race SC like in Montreal last year. The drivers are queued and there might be different tyre strategies.

Well, surely there is one "optimum" strategy but if you qualify badly then it might be clever to try something different.
and what would that different strategy be? put on the slower tyres first and end up miles back, having to catch up at the end running the engine to the max and risk it blowing the next race?

i dont see it working.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 11:14 (Ref:1818341)   #20
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i think Redwall tyres would be good so than the spectators can see which type of tyre they are running, as F1 has adopted a similar stradigy to ChampCar but without the coloured wall, so i thinl F1 should adopt the coloured walls.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 12:23 (Ref:1818399)   #21
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Oh no, here we go again. Didn't we just have this discussion? Option tyres, push-to-pass, just too gimickie for me. If I want to see push-to-pass graphics and red-walled tyres, I'd watch Champcar. Anyway, carry-on.

By the way, great posts Martyn, thanks for that.

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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:15 (Ref:1818437)   #22
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Yeah but, how often does a change in the number of pitstops-strategy differ from team to team in a weekend? And if they all have the same add-on options, excepting only the occasional luckies, it'll even out within a season. I know we need more passing, I just don't see this stuff as having a place in the 'pinnacle of the sport' as it were. Reckon I'm the only one.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:34 (Ref:1818455)   #23
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Originally Posted by Last2LiftOff
Yeah but, how often does a change in the number of pitstops-strategy differ from team to team in a weekend? And if they all have the same add-on options, excepting only the occasional luckies, it'll even out within a season. I know we need more passing, I just don't see this stuff as having a place in the 'pinnacle of the sport' as it were. Reckon I'm the only one.
The way I see it,is that the cars that work fine on the hard tyre may quickly ruin a set of softer tyres,and cars that work fine on the soft tyre may slide around uncontrollably on the harder tyre.So all strategies will be different,so long as the cars are different,and drivers have different driving styles.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:44 (Ref:1818460)   #24
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No argument there Martyn, but then we're back to where we were last year with Michelin et Bridgestone, sure not to the same degree, but hope you see my point.

Of course they'll do whatever they thinks best (right?). Please, just don't put the dang redwalls on the tyres or go on about how many seconds of push to pass everybody's got left. I'd rather hear "push Giancarlo push" not "push to pass Giancarlo push to pass"

Anyway, I've said my bit.
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Old 18 Jan 2007, 13:50 (Ref:1818468)   #25
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Originally Posted by Last2LiftOff
No argument there Martyn, but then we're back to where we were last year with Michelin et Bridgestone, sure not to the same degree, but hope you see my point.
Try to see it as all the teams/cars/drivers being able to use either the Bridgestones or Michelins during a race,but they must use both makes of tyre in that period.
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