Pilbeam

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by F1n

You have been doing some homework Steve!, wee error though

"MP62 12 Speed John Moulds (2.8 Hart engine) Moulds commissioned this beefed up MP62. It was moderately successful and was eventually sold to Nigel Sillence. Sillence ran it for a couple of season prior to selling it to Andy Kittle. The car went to Northern Ireland until John Whyte bought it and took it to Scotland. He subsequently sold it to Glenn del Medico"

My Dad did sell The MP50 to Glenn Del Medico, but the MP62 is still at home, doing the few Scottish Hills, although he took most of last year out!

fascinating stuff though well done mate

Fin

Cheers for that. I will amend my records accordingly.

[Nordic]

Type Ch No Formula Details

MP22 Speed Three Chassis built by Dungworth & Elliot allowed to carry the Pilbeam name. They were built up from replica BT38 chassis.
Dungworth 1980

(I have this listed as MP23 - 03 as taken from the program)

MP40 02 Speed Martyn Griffiths (Hart engine) MP40G

MP40 01 Speed Martyn Griffiths (Hart engine) Sold to Rob Turnbull, then to Ted Williams, then to Tony Brown, then to Brian Walker, then to Steve Allen, then to Martin Middleton, then to Roger Kilty and finally back to Martin Middleton.

MP40(41)1980(Turnbull)
MP40 1981 (R Fry)
This appears to be the same car colour wise?

MP43 01 Speed Dave Garnett (Hart engined Sports Libre)
MP43 Garnett

MP50 01 Speed Dave Harris (Hart Engined) MP50 Dave Harris

MP50 02 Speed Martin Bolsover (1.6 Ford BDA) {aka MP51} Bolsover subsequently installed a Hart engine before selling it to Jim Thomson for Tim Thomson to drive.
MP51 Bolsover 1981


I have added some pictures taken in period of these cars based on my limited knowledge and the Programs I have available.

I hope its of some use, a picture is worth a thousands words as they say!

If any of the captions are wrong, I am sure they can be changed.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Nordic, the captions are fine. It never ceases to amaze me that the numbering of chassis types gets so mangled by the owners! You would think they really should know what they have got!

[Steve Wilkinson]

The following is a list of the 'missing numbers' from my previous list:

R2 - a 1961 design for a 3 wheeled 'device' for Tony Gould.
R5 - a 1963 development of Owen Greenwood's Mini-based sidecar racing outfit.
R6 - Not Built
R7 - Not Built
R8 - Suspension development for an Alexis FF1600.
R9 - Monocoque F2 design for Alexis - Not Built
R10 - Design for racing components.
R11 - Not Built
R13 - Not Allocated.
R14 - Not Built
R20 - F5000 design for David Purley, to use Ford GA V6 - Not Built
R23 - F.Atlantic design for Tom Wheatcroft. Not Built but it eveolved into R24/26.
R24 - Development of R23 for BMW F2 engine installation - Not Built
R29 - Design exercise for Yamaha sidecar racing outfit - Not Built
MP35 - Ford Escort racing saloon - Not Built
MP38 - Unfinished research for March.
MP39 - Le Mans car drawings for Alain de Cadenet - Project Abandonded.
MP41 - 1979 Industrial machinery project -also applied 'unofficially' to the second MP40.
MP49 - Formula Super Vee version of MP45 - Not Built
MP59 - Group A Nova project for Vauxhall.
MP60 - Cavalier/Vectra/Calibra 4WD project for Vauxhall.
MP61 - Design for BTCC Cavalier for Vauxhall.
MP63 - Project for motor manufacturer.
MP65 - Group A Astra rally car for Vauxhall.
MP66 - Project for motor manufacturer.
MP67 - Astra Touring car for Opel - Built by MSD.
MP68 - Vauxhall Calibra V8 Thundersaloon for Uniclip Automotive/Bill Shepherd.

That is as far as my information currently extends.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Type Ch No Formula Details
R1 F1172 Mike Pilbeam
R3 F1172 Mike Pilbeam
R4 F1172 Tony Gould
R12 Clubmans Tim Goss (the Lotus 7X development)
R15 Speed Alister Douglas-Osborne (ADO) Development of BT38 Ford BDG
R16 Spec Sal Tony Dickinson – Spaceframe IMP Ford BDA
R17 Spec Sal Tony Dickinson – Lola S2000 Skoda
R18 FAt/F3 Tom Wheatcroft – 4 chassis built – John Bright F3
R19 F2 Tom Wheatcroft – Development of R18 with Ford BDG
R21 F1 David Purley (the Lec F1 project – two chassis)
R22 Speed ADO – further development of R15 to accommodate Cosworth DFV
MP22 Speed Three Chassis built by Dungworth & Elliot allowed to carry the Pilbeam name. They were built up from replica BT38 chassis.
R25 Speed Malcolm Dungworth – development of BT35X with Repco V8
R26 F2 Tom Wheatcroft – evolution of the never completed R24 design – Abarth 6cy engine.
R27 F2 Tom Wheatcroft – evolution of R26 to fit Hart 420R
R28 Speed Martyn Griffiths – evolution of March-Hart 74B
R30 Grp 8 Hexagon – development of Penske PC6 F1 car
MP31 01 Speed ADO – Cosworth DFV engined – WRITTEN OFF
MP31 02 Speed Peter Kaye – Cosworth DFV engined – WRITTEN OFF
MP32 Speed Martyn Griffiths – further development of R28 – aka 78P or PILCH. Car sold to Peter Varley as a roller. Varley installed a Ford YB engine and when he retired sold the car as a roller to the Newton brothers who installed a Ford BDA.
MP33 Speed Chris Cramer – development of March-Ford GA 76A
MP34 F2 Brian Lewis – development of Boxer PR276
MP36 Speed Peter Kaye – development of BT35
MP37 Grp 8 Brian McGuire – Suspension mods to Williams FW05
MP40 01 Speed Martyn Griffiths (Hart engine) Sold to Rob Turnbull, then to Ted Williams, then to Tony Brown, then to Brian Walker, then to Steve Allen, then to Martin Middleton, then to Roger Kilty and finally back to Martin Middleton.
MP40 02 Speed Martyn Griffiths (Hart engine) Sold to Jim Thomson then to Martin Middleton. Middleton sold it as a roller to John Belsey who installed a Ford YB. Belsey sold it to Graham Henson who in turn sold it to Andy Bennett & Simon Osbourne. Bennett & Osbourne started to install a Rover V8 before selling the project to Damon Milnes who is still working on the installation.
MP42 Speed Neve's F2 car sold to Martin Griffiths.
MP43 01 Speed Dave Garnett (Hart engined Sports Libre) Sold to John Lambert/Peter Kaye with the Hart. They in turn sold it as a roller to Graham Galliers who had various engines including Mitsubishi and Porsche installed before selling it as a roller to Barrie Lines. Lines had a twin turbocharged Rover V8 dropped in.
MP43 02 Speed Jim Thomson (Hart engined Sports Libre) - Dvr Martin Bolsover. When Bolsover moved on Tim Thomson took over driving duties. The car was eventually sold to David Render who campaigned it with various co-drivers inc Ray Rowan. Render sold it to Christian Mineef who eventually sold it back to Render. When David Render retired from racing he sold the car to Mike Sidgwick who had a big shunt. He sold the wreck minus the Hart engine to Rhys Howells who repaired the tub and installed a Rover V8. Howells was killed testing the car at Llandow.
MP43 03 Speed Jim Robinson (Hart engined Sports Libre) with various co-drivers including David Grace. Robinson eventually sold the car as a roller to Charlie & Justin Smith who installed a Millington engine.
MP43 04 Speed Martyn Griffiths – Hart engined Sports Libre - never used and eventually sold on to Ian Fidoe. When Fidoe broke the Hart engine a two litre Millington was installed and Ian was joined by his son Simon.
MP44 F3 John Bright (Toyota engined) Sold to Terry Clifford (see MP45)
MP45 Speed Evolution of MP44 for Terry Clifford – Ford BDA installed. Sold to Don Stratton who later installed a Hart engine. The car was sold by Stratton as a roller to Pete Hannam. Hannam eventually sold the car on as a roller to David Cuff who installed a Rover V8.
MP46 Speed Upgrades to MP42 for hillclimbing Martyn Griffiths (Hart engine) Sold to Dave Harris. Harris then sold the car as a roller to Roy Lane. The car went back to Pilbeams and was upgraded to MP50 specification and a BMW engine installed. Lane eventually sold the car as a roller to Barrie Dutnall who installed a Ford BDA. Dutnall sold it to Dave Abbott who in turn sold it on to Dave Whitehead. After a bigish shunt the car was retubbed as an MP50 and Whitehead installed a BDG.
MP47 Speed ADO (Cosworth DFV engined). Car sold as a roller to Chris Dowson who installed a 5.0 Repco V8. Charles Wardle joined Dowson in the car. It was eventually sold as a roller to Roger Kilty who installed a Cosworth DFR. The car without engine is now for sale.
MP48 FAt Neil Betteridge
MP50 01 Speed Dave Harris (Hart Engined) Sold to David Render who quickly sold it on to Mike Lane as a roller. Lane installed a Ford BDA. Rob Turnbull bought the car as a roller and installed a 3.0 Judd BV. After a shunt SPA re-jigged the chassis. Turnbull then sold the car to Rob Welch. Welch had a big shunt which required a new SPA chassis. He later sold the car to Bill Bristow who removed the engine and sold it on as a roller to John Forsythe. Forsythe installed a 5.0 Rover V8 – the car is now for sale.
MP50 02 Speed Martin Bolsover (1.6 Ford BDA) {aka MP51} Bolsover subsequently installed a Hart engine before selling it to Jim Thomson for Tim Thomson to drive.
MP50 05 Speed Jim Thomson (Hart engined) also driven by Tim Thomson. Sold to John Whyte whop won the Scottish Hillclimb championship before selling it to Glenn del Medico.
MP50 ? Speed Spare tub acquired by Martin Middleton. Tim Mason and Ian Stringer then had Middleton install a Judd CV and ran the car as MP50M. Stringer dropped out and Tim Coventry joined Mason. After a big shunt David Gould retubbed the car. It was later sold to Alastair Crawford and Paul Wood. The engine has subsequently been removed and the roller is for sale.
MP51 01 F3 Josh Wright (Toyota) Sold to Geoff Hunt as a roller. Hunt installed a Twin Cam Ford and still owns the car.
MP52 FF2000 8 chassis built by Swift at Donington to Mike Pilbeam’s design. Most found their way into speed events.
MP53 01 Speed Martyn Griffiths/Max Harvey (Hart engined) Sold as a roller to Roy Lane who installed a BMW engine. Subsequently Lane sold the car as a roller to Deryk Young who installed a Hart engine. This was subsequently replaced with the plastic Polimotor before the car was sold to John Chalmers. Chalmers subsequently installed a 2.0 Ford BDG – the car is for sale.
MP53 02 Speed Martyn Griffiths/Max Harvey (Hart engined) the car was sold to Murray and Joy Rainey, Murray modified the car for Joy to drive and she still has the car.
MP53H Speed Martyn Griffiths/Max Harvey (Hart Turbocharged engine) the car was sold to John Garnett and was subsequently acquired by David Seaton.
MP54 Speed Richard Fry (Hart engined) bought by John Hunt and ADO. It was subsequently bought by the McBeath Brothers who modified the chassis. The car was subsequently sold as a roller to Roger Cock who has slotted in a Ford BDA.
MP55 84/1 Speed John Hunt & ADO (Cosworth DFV) – WRITTEN OFF at Shelsley
MP56 01 F4 Chris Kite – sold as a roller to Gordon Marston.
MP56 01 Speed Marston firstly installed an 1100cc BDJ then subsequently replaced the BDJ with a 1600 BDA.

Corrections to MP42 and MP46.

[Dan Rear]

Steve, re MP37 the mods were to a Williams FW04, not 05, which after the work became the ill-fated McGuire BM01. Any more info on the MP48, the Betteridge FAt car. I don't recall this at all. And the MP34 Boxer developments, were these after Max Harvey took the car over for climbing ?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

Steve, re MP37 the mods were to a Williams FW04, not 05, which after the work became the ill-fated McGuire BM01. Any more info on the MP48, the Betteridge FAt car. I don't recall this at all. And the MP34 Boxer developments, were these after Max Harvey took the car over for climbing ?

Nothing on Betteridge's car.

The mods to the Boxer were for Brian Lewis and were some time before Max Harvey bought the car.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Type Ch No Formula Details
MP50 01 Speed Dave Harris (Hart Engined) Sold to David Render who quickly sold it on to Mike Lane as a roller. Lane installed a Ford BDA. Rob Turnbull bought the car as a roller and installed a 3.0 Judd BV. After a shunt SPA re-jigged the chassis. Turnbull then sold the car to Rob Welch. Welch had a big shunt which required a new SPA chassis. He later sold the car to Bill Bristow who removed the engine and sold it on as a roller to John Forsythe. Forsythe installed a 5.0 Rover V8; the engine was extracted and sold seperately whilst the rolling chassis has just been sold to Terry Holmes in the South West (not the one from Chichester!).

I have updated the above entry.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

MP58 04 Speed Paul Edwards (Cosworth DFL engine) co-driven by Dave Harris. Eventually sold on as a roller to John Meredith who slotted in a 5.0 Rover V8. Co-driven by various people including Rodney Eyles. The car was then sold to Patrick Wood who ran the Rover V8 for a season before replacing it with a Cosworth DFZ-R. Wood eventually sold the car to Rob Romeril in the Channel Islands. Romeril kept it for several seasons running it mainly in the Channel Islands and at Harewood! John Forsyth has now bougth the car and is campaigning it in the British Hillclimb Championship.
MP58 07 Speed John Gray (Judd V10 engine) used primarily in sprints; Gray sold the damaged roller after a shunt. Colin le Maitre bought it and had it repaired, he slotted in a Ford BDG. He sold the car to Guy Lees-Milne who ran it in sprints and hillclimbs. Martin Elsmore has bought the car and it is again for sale.
MP58 09 Speed Tim Thomson – never used. Sold on as a roller to Roy Lane who installed the intended Judd EV. The engine was taken out to 4 litres. The car is for sale.
MP62 12 Speed John Moulds (2.8 Hart engine) Moulds commissioned this beefed up MP62. It was moderately successful and was eventually sold to Nigel Sillence. Sillence ran it for a couple of season prior to selling it to Andy Kittle. The car went to Northern Ireland until John Whyte bought it and took it to Scotland. The car is currently for sale.
MP88 03 Speed Tom New/Simon Frost (2.0 Rover/QED KV6). Now being run just by Tom 'Big Paws' New

I have updated the above entries.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Brothers Peter and David Newton were out at Aintree today in the March/Pilbeam MP28. This has undergone an extensive rebuild and this was their first outing with the car. Father Alan was in attendance to oversee the lads efforts.

[Judd]

Steve,

just found this fascinating history... and I've got a query! I was sure that the Lees-Milne MP58 was related to the Hickman MP58. The cars originally fitted with Hart four cylinder engines by Pilbeam had additional aluminium "pontoons" to support the chassis loads. An "H" was also added to the chassis number (ours was MP58-02H). The pontoons are present on our car 02H and on Jim Robinson's car (the number escapes me but it is definitely an H designation). However, the Lees-Milne four cylinder doesn't have these pontoons and uses a tubular engine frame instead.

If Hickman had fitted a V8 to Jim's car, then these pontoons would have been cut off. I don't remember seeing Jim refitting pontoons when he fitted his engine - and I was sure that when he bought the car he took a Hart out, to put his Hart in. However, for a four cylinder to have been fitted to the Hickman V8 car, an engine frame as per Lees-Milne's would need to be made up.

I may have just added confusion to a well-researched piece!

Sorry,

Oliver

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Judd

Steve,

just found this fascinating history... and I've got a query! I was sure that the Lees-Milne MP58 was related to the Hickman MP58. The cars originally fitted with Hart four cylinder engines by Pilbeam had additional aluminium "pontoons" to support the chassis loads. An "H" was also added to the chassis number (ours was MP58-02H). The pontoons are present on our car 02H and on Jim Robinson's car (the number escapes me but it is definitely an H designation). However, the Lees-Milne four cylinder doesn't have these pontoons and uses a tubular engine frame instead.

If Hickman had fitted a V8 to Jim's car, then these pontoons would have been cut off. I don't remember seeing Jim refitting pontoons when he fitted his engine - and I was sure that when he bought the car he took a Hart out, to put his Hart in. However, for a four cylinder to have been fitted to the Hickman V8 car, an engine frame as per Lees-Milne's would need to be made up.

I may have just added confusion to a well-researched piece!

Sorry,

Oliver

Judders! I don't know if you have spotted it but there is a Pilbeam MP58 for sale at the present complete with a Rover V8 in situ. It looks remakably like the Guy Lees-Milne car! I think a little more digging is called for!

Thanks a bunch!

[Judd]

I believe it is the Lees-Milne car - modified by Martin Elsmore. Note that in the picture on racecarsdirect you can see that the roll hoop is the narrow angle version, subtly different to the wide angle one on our car. The narrow angle one is perched on top of an ali extension which allowed the V8s to be fitted (higher mounting points to the cam covers). Therefore this car was originally built and left the factory as a V8.

Enjoy the research - its a fascinating piece.

As an aside, perhaps you might be able to tell us what aborted F3 project our OMS CF96 came from?

Oliver

[Paul Ranson]

MP82 03 Speed Dave Butler (2.5 Millington) used only a couple of times prior to Butler pulling out due to family commitments. The car was sold to John Leinster and is currently for sale.

I think this car went on to Andrew Howell in Australia. It is however currently for sale...

Paul

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Paul Ranson

I think this car went on to Andrew Howell in Australia. It is however currently for sale...

Paul

Thanks Paul I will update my records.

[Damon Milnes]

Steve

Only just caught up with your amazing records. One minor correction....I own MP40/1, which went Middleton-Belsey-Henson-me in the last few years

Simon Osbourne still has MP40/2. The confusion arises because we've both installed Rover engines - the only difference being that his works and mine doesn't!

Best wishes


Damon

[Damon Milnes]

Steve

Should also add that my car had a new tub following Tony Brown's accident at Wiscombe, when it was described in Speedscene as 'beyond economic repair'

Roger Kilty has a spare tub for the honeycomb version hidden away in his garage!

Best wishes


Damon

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Damon Milnes

Steve

Only just caught up with your amazing records. One minor correction....I own MP40/1, which went Middleton-Belsey-Henson-me in the last few years

Simon Osbourne still has MP40/2. The confusion arises because we've both installed Rover engines - the only difference being that his works and mine doesn't!

Best wishes


Damon

Thanks for that Damon. I will update my records and when I have accumulated some more changes will re-list the relevant section on this thread.

All the best,

Steve

[anorack]

Wow, what a great resource. The notes on chasis history are virtually identical to mine, but has anyone ever written anything on the desighn and specifications of the cars themselves? Iv'e been trying to look into this for a while, and to be honest the newer cars are quite easy to get details on through the likes of racecar engineering etc. they have covered most of the Pilbeams since the MP72. ( Good articles on Gould as well. )

If anyone has any information on the specifications of earlier Pilbeam's I'd love to hear it, and on that subject does anyone know the bore and stroke of the 420R once you get above 2.0? Iv'e tried estimating it, but I'm sure my numbers are wrong and I can only find details of the F2 version.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson

Type Ch No Formula Details
MP45 Speed Evolution of MP44 for Terry Clifford – Ford BDA installed. Sold to Don Stratton who later installed a Hart engine. The car was sold by Stratton as a roller to Pete Hannam. Hannam eventually sold the car on as a roller to David Cuff who installed a Rover V8.

The above car is now being run by Frank Byrnes in Southern Ireland. Frank made a foray to Craigantlet at the week-end.

Also the Ex-Moran MP88 that John Leinster had been running has now been sold to Stewart Robb.

I'll put in all the Updates & Corrections and re-post the NEW list shortly.

[allenbrown]

Hi Steve

Are you in touch with Stewart Robb? He ran in libre with a March 75B in 1979, a March 782 in 1980 and a March 75/782 in 1981. Possibly all three were the same car but it would be good to find out - and find out where it came from.

Cheers

Allen

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Hi Steve

Are you in touch with Stewart Robb? He ran in libre with a March 75B in 1979, a March 782 in 1980 and a March 75/782 in 1981. Possibly all three were the same car but it would be good to find out - and find out where it came from.

Cheers

Allen

I was chatting to Stewart on Friday and Saturday over in Ulster.

I'll ask the questions and get back to you off-line!

[Guy Lees-Milne]

Hi Steve,
I'll see if i can add a little more confusion to the story of my old Pilbeam MP58-07. To my knowledge the car was originally set up as a V8, as when i purchased it from Graham Hickman it came with the engine mounts for it. It was also supplied with a Hewland fg box with was far too big for it. Now i can not remember if Graham had run this Pilbeam with a V8 or his previous one. Graham ran the car with a 2 ltr bda for 2 seasons before i bought it. I used to sponsor him, as his local supplier of fine ale and food( The Lion at Clifton-on-Teme) well it was good then!!!!!!!!!!!! i followed him up to Doune while he was running a 2 ltr, he failed to score as his fancy starter was inop, needless to say i made sure when i had it it was on the button!!!! Any way i digress. I ran the car with a 2ltr bdx on webber alfa injection, i used to sets of side pods, one set full length originally designed for V8 the other a much smaller pair with no downforce effect. The engine that i used i sold to The Squire brothers who are big into rallying MK2 escorts, the tub, rolling chassis and box were sold seperatly. i hope i havn't confused the issue too much. If you want any other info please feel free to contact me.
Regards
Guy

[911thillclimber]

This is my very first entry to this Forum, so I am an absolute novice to single seaters!

Question though:

I intend to move from tin top hillclimbing to pre 85 single seaters.

I want a V8 (prefer Rover) but have seen the great MP58 for sale on Motorsportads like several others I'm sure.

The owner I know from my past racing the 911 on the hills, and he thinks the MP 58 is a 1987 car.

Is the MP58 design dated before then?

When was the car introduced as a design rather than Pauls's car?

Thanks,
Graham.

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

This is my very first entry to this Forum, so I am an absolute novice to single seaters!

Question though:

I intend to move from tin top hillclimbing to pre 85 single seaters.

I want a V8 (prefer Rover) but have seen the great MP58 for sale on Motorsportads like several others I'm sure.

The owner I know from my past racing the 911 on the hills, and he thinks the MP 58 is a 1987 car.

Is the MP58 design dated before then?

When was the car introduced as a design rather than Pauls's car?

Thanks,
Graham.

That particular car was built during the latter part of 1990 and first appeared in 1991.

MP58/01 was built for the 1987 season but the design was available for several years.

If you want specifically Pre 1985 cars then they fall into two categories:-

1) The V8 Rover engined cars that competed in era:

The Alan Payne/Paul Gething Anson SA4
The ex-Merrick/Penrose/Cannell Ralt RT1

2) The older cars that you could try and track down and then fit a Rover engine into:

The MP47 still with Martin Middleton & for sale I believe.
The ex-Mason/Crawford MP50 which I understand Alistair still has.

Either way you would be faced with a doubly difficult task; first to track down the car and second to slot in a Rover V8 assuming you also get the gearbox with the chassis!

There are other Historic Hillclimb cars that are not V8 powered which are currently on the market for a reasonable price - some of which are complete and ready to rock n roll!