Formula BMW – not such a good replacement?

[alchemy]

I fear the advent of FBMW may result in not necessarily producing what we expect. If you look what’s happened, the Formula Ford UK championship has lost much to this formula, undeniably to the fault of Ford for not stepping in and updating the class.
However FF always had a depth to it, unlike FBMW where one could find drivers well out of their nappies, which brought a sort of maturity and experience to it all. The result was it was a ‘stand alone’ class, and not just a quick in-and-out formula. It was not at all unusual to see many drivers spending 3 or more years in UKFF. My point is that often the antics from Karting are just carried through into FBMW with potential resultant carnage. It’s all very well having a ‘biggy’ in a Kart, but when you are going twice as fast in something weighing four times as much the result might be good TV, but what happens when we kill a 15 year old kid? With no elder statesman to learn real racecar craft from what else can we expect?

Of course the whole basis and structure of the BMW class is to promote as young a driver as possible – but why?

I think we have gone nuts with this age thing. Lets just say the class throws up a 15 year old kid as FBMW champ. Do we put him in a 200 mph F1 car? It’s like giving him an AK47 and telling him to be careful with it!

Maybe we could start up Formula Embryo….. why not?

[429CJ]

Originally Posted by alchemy

It’s like giving him an AK47 and telling him to be careful with it!

Maybe more like Glock pistol (no manual safety on those).

[ss_collins]

May I suggest britains biggest single seater championship - Vee

[Ian Sowman]

Did anyone else think, "I bet Sam mentions Vee" before they read his post?

[ems]

Could not disagree with Alchemy more.
There are clearly "graded levels of responsibility" that should be followed upward on the racing ladder. But to suggest that age alone is the criteria for advancement could only spew forth and stem from the advice of a simpleton. If a youngster shows maturity beyond his age, with the corresponding speed and racecraft, then on with it. Why would one want to hold them back, as long as they are having delivering the results and enjoying themselves? They, if judged qualified, will be putting themselves and others at no more risk than anyone else in the field. Would you, Alchemy, prefer someone less qualified? And yes they could be killed. But at least they are not doing something really dangerous like horseback riding. Measured by hour spent in sport, horseback riding is much more likely to result in chronic longterm disability, paralysis, and death than motor racing. But, let's don't be concerned with the facts, let's just blast forth with uninhibited arrogance and spontaneously prescribe edicts, albeit with the best of naive intentions.

[Kicking-back]

FBMW generally has better driving standards than you may expect - Donington was not a highlight of this, though.

[alchemy]

I take your point ems, but maybe there ought to be a line drawn somewhere. We all know what the real criteria is, and that’s a ‘rich dad’! I bet if the minimum age was 10 there’d be takers. There’s a million fathers out there living their dream through their kids - pure and simple. I don’t necessarily knock it, just highlight it!

We know horseback riding is an extremely dangerous pastime, but that’s irrelevant. It’s like saying Russian roulette with one bullet is ok, because there’s a more dangerous pastime called Russian roulette with two bullets!

[ActiveMS]

I think there is a role for FBMW especially with the younger drivers who have the cash and want to get on the career ladder.

However, driving standards do need to be enforced with strict fines/endorsements otherwise these young drivers wont learn. The only gripe IMO with FBMW is the cost, especially when all the original PR etc promised season costs at almost a third of what they now are.

Personally, if my sprog was sub 20, then I would look at moving from karts, to either fjedi or ffords and then to either frenault or scholarship F3 and beyond. The money would be better spent and would provide a better 'learning experience' for the money over a slightly less condensed timeline.

[Teletubby]

The thing with FBMW is that it's not just about the racing, there is a driver education program and training in racecraft. At the official test days they practice starts, forming up behind the safety car and restarting. Surely this has some major value in producing better drivers?

[JNWRF01]

the other thing to consider with FBMW is the upper age limit stops any of the seasoned campaigners having a go. Half the fun of racing FF1600s in the 80-90s was going to somewhere like Brands and taking on the locals..... You often learn more in those races than you did in the national rounds racing guys your own age...

Wouldn'tFBMW be a fantastic series if it was a multi-chassis formula & the cars came in at FF prices (ie about £20-25k for a new car)...ie copy FF1600!

[ActiveMS]

Originally Posted by Teletubby

The thing with FBMW is that it's not just about the racing, there is a driver education program and training in racecraft. At the official test days they practice starts, forming up behind the safety car and restarting. Surely this has some major value in producing better drivers?

I agree it is a good idea. My point is that observers and CofC's need to be more heavy handed with some of the drivers when they do silly things. Unfortunately its not just FBMW, but most race meetings have failed to pickup on bad driving recently.

[Chris_SLH]

Got to agree with some of opinions expressed above. I was at Donington and watched both races from inside old hairpin. There was an occasion when the corner was under waved yellows to allow marshalls to recover a beached car. The FBMW guys were tanking in at full race speeds and there were even a couple of guys overtaking! As this is the 'first step on the ladder' for a lot of these drivers, surely this is the time to address these problems.

[alchemy]

Originally Posted by JNWRF01

Half the fun of racing FF1600s in the 80-90s was going to somewhere like Brands and taking on the locals..... You often learn more in those races than you did in the national rounds racing guys your own age...

Couldn't agree more

[ukracing]

U complain about putting 15 year olds in FBMW's like to point to things out!!! Micheal herck Internation F3 is only 16! and also Red Bull have back a 13 year old and he tested near on F1 machinery. FBMW provdes so much that other junior formula dont, old motorsport as we know it is dead hence FF etc are now clubs. If u wana succeed now u need major brand mite behind u, BMW is the place to be. I think more BMW graduates are in F3 etc this year than FRenault or ford.

[JNWRF01]

UKRACING- OK fair point - BMW is the only promoted game in town at the moment. But you have to say for what you get the budget is huge. I assume being a spec formula you can only buy parts via BMW agents etc etc... How much do you think BMW themselves make out of it. Of the EUR53k for a new car - how much goes back to them .. 10%?? Likewise, if we assume a budget is £150k - then how much of this goes back to BMW through the various licensing deals? If you work off the basis that it is 10% across the board - then £150k x 30 drivers x 10% = £450k a year.

How much do you think they spend on it in the UK??? I would be surprised if it was much more than £500k a year....

The whole reason I race in FF (Zetecs currently) is that I don;t have to buy all my parts from one place. Look at some of the other spec formulas - FPA, Radicals etc etc - the mark up on tyres / spares etc by the championship organisers is off putting. I would be very surprised that FBMW is any different.

Saying all that - BMW should be congratulated that they invested in the project....but don't think for one second they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts...

[Redracer77]

I think the whole package of FBMW can't be faulted with what you get back in media and PR training etc But what you have produced is Formula Public School. It is just a load rich kids having fun when their dads take them out of Harrow/Eaton for the weekend to race. Just because they are rich does that make them the next world champion? It will surely help them a great deal but we need a formula that is based on the same ideas but comes in around £50 - £60k to give people like Darwin Smith, Ben Clucus and Stu Gough etc a fighting chance to raise a budget. I would say it is absolutely impossible to raise £150k sponsorship in FBMW without 90% backing from the family. Why do the cars have to cost so much? Surely a F1 looking car can be designed for £10 - 20K?

Like Jez has pointed out people like BMW are involved because it is great PR for little or no money and well done to them. They have invested early like Ford should have done and are now reaping the rewards.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by Redracer77

I think the whole package of FBMW can't be faulted with what you get back in media and PR training

You wouldn't guess to hear some of them talk...

[Birel4me]

the point about costs of FBMW without sponsorship is on target; just too expensive for nearly everyone.

[Kicking-back]

It gets a decent grid, therefore the price must be at the correct level of supply and demand.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It gets a decent grid, therefore the price must be at the correct level of supply and demand.

Which assumes it is purely a commodity. Team owners have two interests. Firstly to get drivers who can pay. Secondly, to get the best possible drivers who can pay. A lower cost means, potentially, that more able drivers are able to afford to race in it as well as (or instead of) those with money but relatively little talent.

[nitrous]

The grid is good because BMW does a good job of marketing. As soon as people realize that this is nothing more than a marketing exercise, the grids will soon fall off. The car and series is too expensive for an entry level program. The car is also too good and in my opinion offers very little in training regardless what BMW sells you with their E and C program. Formula V and Formula F are still the best training, the same as direct drive in karts. Do you believe that BMW is really producing better drivers?

[JNWRF01]

Lets all hope that Ford in their current silent state are spending the time to get the new FF right for next year...especially if it creates parity between owners of the older kent spec machines and new 1600 zetec machines.

It amazes me that someone hasn't gone to Van Diemen and asked then to build a new version of Formula First - there are so many kids out there that can;t afford the jump from Super1 budget (say £30k) to FBMW....

[JohnMiller]

Wasn't that pretty much what Captain Zippy tried JNWRF01?