Goodwood Revival

[jamesholland]

I fear the latter assertion is correct.

If it weren't a "given" that certain cars would appear year in year out then some of the excess development might not be deemed worth the effort.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by nicanary

I have never understood how it does "improve" the racing. Those genuine historic racing fans attending, and those entrants whose perfectly acceptable cars were turned down, know they are watching a "Goodwood Special" which will not appear again for the rest of the season, and the casual spectators don't know the difference between one car and another.

So why not give everybody "the real McCoy" ? Then we're all happy. Or do large egos need massaging?

Yep, large egos need massaging. But [from a spectator's perspective] what's the problem with that ? If it weren't for these well endowed egos, we wouldn't get to see uber rare priceless machinery being properly peddled by contemporary racing stars.

Another point, from what I understand [from a few coffin dodgers who were prepping cars at the time], breaching the technical regulations was commonplace in period so perversely it almost seems authentic to the spirit of the thing, that people are fiddling with the envelope, albeit in different ways, today.

[terence]

So the original stars were not as capable as todays?
As for the uber expensive cars-who is responsible for the false prices we see today?

[zefarelly]

F+*$ing hell Terence, are you on the same tablets as Al?

cheating is older than cars, its scientificallly known as evolution, I believe.

the older/wealthier the participant gets, the more radical his methods.

I'm not aware of anyone who's managed to win anything by bothering any mythical upstairs types

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by nicanary

Those genuine historic racing fans attending......know they are watching a "Goodwood Special" which will not appear again for the rest of the season, and the casual spectators don't know the difference between one car and another.

Jeeeeee-zusssssss I didn't know I had to be Appx K approved just to flaming *watch* Historic Motorsport! So the cars at Goodwood aren't genuine enough for the purists and now so it seems the spectators aren't either

Seriously, that's a bit patronising....anyone interested in cars can tell the difference between e.g. a Newey and an E-Type, and the Grey Lady was exciting precisely because it was "wrong". A35s taking on Jags? what the hell, most people realise it may not have happened in period but just sit back and enjoy it!

Personally GW isn't my cup of tea but that is because of the fancy dress party, not the racing.

[zefarelly]

I find it disturbing as well, just imagine how badly some people must dress on a week day!

Originally Posted by midgetman

Personally GW isn't my cup of tea but that is because of the fancy dress party, not the racing.

[GORDON STREETER]

I actually enjoy the whole thing including the "razzmatazz", although it's a victim of its own success with the crowds so large that you can't just walk about.
It reminds me of Brands Hatch in the 60s where you had to fight to find and hold a place to watch !

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Originally Posted by terence bower

So the original stars were not as capable as todays?
As for the uber expensive cars-who is responsible for the false prices we see today?

What do you mean by "false prices"?

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Ben Shuckburgh

What do you mean by "false prices"?

The whole being disproportionally great in comparison to the sum of the parts, perhaps...?

[terence]

Thanks Clive,exactly that.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Clive Brown

The whole being disproportionally great in comparison to the sum of the parts, perhaps...?

If I understand you correctly, are you saying a Rembrandt is overpriced because it sells for more than the cost of the paint and the canvas plus a bit of time to daub one on the other? If not, I still don't understand what's "false" about the prices - they are what people are willing to pay.

[terence]

But what if some/most of these cars were not as successful in "Historic Racing"?

[midgetman]

Caveat emptor.....

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by Ben Shuckburgh

What do you mean by "false prices"?

A price is defined at the very moment a seller and a buyer agree to one.
This than happens to be the current market price until the next actual sale.

Be careful not to confuse valid actually paid prices with unpaid sky high asking prices especially in adverts for cars and houses.

"False" prices are a delusion of either buyers or sellers who happen to dislike the current market price.

nuff said

Rudolf

[Ben Shuckburgh]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

A price is defined at the very moment a seller and a buyer agree to one.
This than happens to be the current market price until the next actual sale.

Be careful not to confuse valid actually paid prices with unpaid sky high asking prices especially in adverts for cars and houses.

"False" prices are a delusion of either buyers or sellers who happen to dislike the current market price.

nuff said

Rudolf

That's what I too understand to be real prices. Just not sure what Terence meant by "false" ones......a "real" price and therefore value is what the market says it is. If the market supports it, then that is not false.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Ben Shuckburgh

That's what I too understand to be real prices. Just not sure what Terence meant by "false" ones......a "real" price and therefore value is what the market says it is. If the market supports it, then that is not false.

Think I am aware of what Terence means, being at the moment involved on the edge of 'a deal' The price asked, is not even a tiddly little bit anywhere near to what the buyer is prepared to pay, cars are not selling, and the inducements being offered to relieve the buyer of their hard earnt folding are fast approaching what must have been offered to the buyer of the 8K sheepdog, the Luck paid at a historic car auction, will be somewhere near the same.

I have to admit that the 'joke' cars that are appearing at Goodwood are getting a little too numerous, but then so is some of the 'period clothing'.
Will stil be there net year....

[terence]

OK,so change False for over inflated. Some prices being asked for non historic vehicles are simply just not worth the asking price-cheaper to build new from scratch. As history seems to count for zero these days.

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by terence bower

OK,so change False for over inflated. Some prices being asked for non historic vehicles are simply just not worth the asking price-cheaper to build new from scratch. As history seems to count for zero these days.

Historic-looking rather than historic. Maybe they should have a race for Beauford wedding cars.

[midgetman]

"Asked" is the key word isn't it? Are they being "got"?

To make history count for anything, historic races would have to be only for original cars. That surely will mean a diminishing pool of racers as age takes its toll, especially as the great and good of the historic community have decided that anything after 1965 isnt real historic racing. which will in turn drive prices up further.

[john ruston]

Knowing a few of the fancy historic car second hand car salesmen I am aware of what they are asked for.
People want cars for Goodwood,M M,Monaco,Tour Auto and not much else.
That increases the price of those cars.

[Robyn Slater]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Knowing a few of the fancy historic car second hand car salesmen I am aware of what they are asked for.
People want cars for Goodwood,M M,Monaco,Tour Auto and not much else.
That increases the price of those cars.

They're not interested in proper racing then,,just media hyped jollies.

[Rudernst]

I think this discussion on race car prices has moved away from Goodwood and warrants a seperate thread

Rudolf

[john ruston]

Costs of cars discussion started due to Goodwood.
Can't understand why people get worked up about the effect the major meetings have on car
car prices .
People want to do the meetings rather than the run of the mill stuff .If they have the dosh why not and why do people get envious about it because that's what it sounds like to me.
All this anti stuff because of supposed superioty complex is nonsense .

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Costs of cars discussion started due to Goodwood.
Can't understand why people get worked up about the effect the major meetings have on car
car prices .
People want to do the meetings rather than the run of the mill stuff .If they have the dosh why not and why do people get envious about it because that's what it sounds like to me.
All this anti stuff because of supposed superioty complex is nonsense .

I completely agree with You - and have said here before - that prices are to a large extent event driven.
People want to buy cars that get them into the events that they want to do, the applies to racing, ralleying and even concours events.

Cars that You cant do much with, for instance Edwardians, see less interest that thes used to enjoy.

Just a fact of life and not intrinsically wrong.
You cant force people to buy cars that they dont want.
And You cant force the sellers to ask less than going rate.

The advocates of pure grassroots historic racing have the 750 MC, for instance.
Historic Super Vee cars are - to my knowledge - still very very cheap.
Also the HSCC tries to keep racing affordable and fair.
Run by members for members.
there are more clubs like that out there...

Rudolf