What are you doing in 2009, and why?

[delta]

Gordon.B-----R off.Been saving money by cycling to work hands blooming freezing.Dont worry everyone Gordon's going to save us.!!!

[Al Weyman]

I doubt you are safe there, I was watching something on BBC the other day where lots of OAP's are having to come home because their pensions just won't cut it anymore because of the £/euro rate. My sister lets villas in Marbella and is struggling. I recon I will be working till I fall off my perch now.

[Dan Rear]

Originally Posted by delta

Gordon.B-----R off.Been saving money by cycling to work hands blooming freezing.Dont worry everyone Gordon's going to save us.!!!

I presume you mean the esteemed Mr Brown Iain, not Mr Streeter.

Amazes me how well Old Prudence is coming out of this, after all he was the chap who'd 'abolished boom and bust', and had presided over 10 years of 'prudence'. I fully agree its not all his fault, but if he was happy to accept the plaudits, he should be equally willing to accept the responsibility too.

[delta]

Yes Dan .

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

I presume you mean the esteemed Mr Brown Iain, not Mr Streeter.

Amazes me how well Old Prudence is coming out of this, after all he was the chap who'd 'abolished boom and bust', and had presided over 10 years of 'prudence'. I fully agree its not all his fault, but if he was happy to accept the plaudits, he should be equally willing to accept the responsibility too.

Would that be Teflon Brown, the pension scheme wrecker?

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

I presume you mean the esteemed Mr Brown Iain, not Mr Streeter.

Amazes me how well Old Prudence is coming out of this, after all he was the chap who'd 'abolished boom and bust', and had presided over 10 years of 'prudence'. I fully agree its not all his fault, but if he was happy to accept the plaudits, he should be equally willing to accept the responsibility too.

Whilst global recession might not be solely his fault he was undoubtably a major contributor by encouraging a spending culture rather than a saving one - UK savings are now at a ludicorously low 0% having fallen from a low 7%. In harsh reality that means most adults in the UK have no savings......

Surely a prudent man would have put a little away for a rainy day rather than actually overspending in the boom years and selling the family silver to pay for it as he went along. Lets put this into car terms. Imagine 12 years ago being given a Birdcage and over the subsequent bull years you continually downgrade the car to pay for the racing so at the end of the bull run you are racing a Maestro having put the last season's racing on a credit card..... welcome to Team Gordon Brown

[eamonn ledwidge]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Whilst global recession might not be solely his fault he was undoubtably a major contributor by encouraging a spending culture rather than a saving one - UK savings are now at a ludicorously low 0% having fallen from a low 7%. In harsh reality that means most adults in the UK have no savings......

Surely a prudent man would have put a little away for a rainy day rather than actually overspending in the boom years and selling the family silver to pay for it as he went along. Lets put this into car terms. Imagine 12 years ago being given a Birdcage and over the subsequent bull years you continually downgrade the car to pay for the racing so at the end of the bull run you are racing a Maestro having put the last season's racing on a credit card..... welcome to Team Gordon Brown

Well stated. Poor Gordon's problem is that he is an expert in economic theory, but is sadly lacking when putting it into practice. Any man who sells off the Treasury gold reserves at the bottom of the market & continues to argue that it was the correct thing to do cannot be trusted.

Now that all countries are in the mire, Gordon's solutions will be those' sought after and approved by all nations'. Additionally, now that all the fiscal & inflation targets have been abandoned you can look for the following speech from him:

The UK economy, more robust & better prepared for the recession that the others, is now in sync with the rest of Europe. The cycles have converged and Sterling is now at an acceptable level to join EMU. I have decided that we should adopt the Euro with effect from 1 Jan 2010 and my government has commenced negotiations with our European partners in this regard.

Gordon will fix it.

[simon drabble]

I fear deflation coupled by increased consumer credit a toxic mix by anyone's standards.... sadly the Tories don't have a credible alternative until Hague becomes more visible and takes over from the lightweight Osborne.
Racing budgets are going to be hit hard for at least 5 years. As an aside I am hearing in banking circles the Kingfisher brewery group's liquidity is in question... looks like the Minardi jinx stays on that team and I would predict it to be an 09 casualty......

[Al Weyman]

I knew it, bash the pound down to near parity with the euro then push us in, so bloody predictable and imho callous especially if you genuinely have been prudent and have savings just to see the value wittled away.

To put it in perspective, I get scammed recently for £3k because I did not want to put a purchase on a credit card as I dont like them and I had the funds. Meanwhile a friend of mine who is on permenant sick and has everything paid for him by DHSS (he is a genuine case incidently) has ran up an astonishing £10k debt on a credit card and has just given the bank the choice, he either declares himself bankrupt and they get nothing as he has nothing or they accept his offer of £100 a month for the next 9 years and no more interest charged on the card. The bank have taken the 2nd option. Now how many times is this happening across the country or indeed the world and who are to blame, my mate or the bank?

One funny thing that was said during the negotiations with the bank was they suggested in the last two or three months he had made a lot of purchases and would like him to pay at least a grand off before the no interest deal kicks in and when he said he did'nt have the funds they suggested he borrow the grand from a friend or relative. He said to the bank man simply, 'Would you lend me money knowing my situation?, reply stoney silence.

So who is to blame for this situation, obvious the banks, and who is going to pay for it? Even more obvious the genuinely prudent of us in society that always get fleeced.

[Peter Mallett]

I wouldn't be surprised to see (in Saloon/Touring cars) a resurgence for clubs such as the CTCRC where the regs are more realistic because the concentration is on more recent vehicles. This, in turn may change the face of historic motosport, Europe wide. If you can build a competitive Grp 1 car for 20k when an App K will cost double that (excluding V8s) then Gp 1 may well come into it's own.

I'd also say the MGCC is well placed too.

This will solve another problem too because these cars just don't attract people with money and egos to massage.

[simon drabble]

Peter I am not sure I agree with that - whilst I agree that domestic clubs will fare possibly better than pan european series I am not sure I buy into the idea that a non FIA car is cheaper to build/run than an FIA car.

[Peter Mallett]

Well take my word for it, they are.

For a full bifta Gp1 Capri with Rick wood engine et al, it'll come in less than a FIA LC from scratch. And certainly less than a 3.8 Jag MkII. Minis might be about the same cost though.

And a Class B 1950cc MGB will be less than an FIA App K too.

I should add I'm not excluding the HSCC here either because they also cater for more recent machinery thus the roadsports and the like will (IMO) also benefit.

[simon drabble]

take an MGB - I reckon an FIA one would cost about late teens to build properly - why would a 1950 cost less? An FIA Lotus Cortina surely is going to cost the same as a non FIA one?

[Peter Mallett]

A non FIA 1960's LC is not a 1970's Group 1 car.

I used that as the relative equivalent in terms of performance for each category. But the Cortina Lotus MkII would compare favourably with its FIA AppK brother and again the 1970's car will be cheaper to build. For a start you can't run plastic windows in Grp 1 so there's a cost saving albeit not massive.

As to FIA/1950 MGB. I don't know the reason but I can tell you that they are cheaper to build. For a start you can run Fibreglass panels in MGCC class B, the engines are almost "off the shelf" rather than bespoke etc. You could go to MGB Hive and get all the parts off the shelf and go racing. An FIA car needs to be three bearing, therefore the shells, engines and gearboxes are more rare. Hence, I guess more cost. You can also use a 1970s shell for a class B car.

[simon drabble]

I didn't reailze you were referring to quite such clubbie cars!! I cant believe we have gyrated round to MGB's - just need a hint of Spa 6 Hour and its morphed into every other thread....

[Peter Mallett]

No, I used them as examples to suggest that the face of historic club racing will change from FIA restricted to the more free clubs.

The Gp1 thing is related to FIA Ap J Grp1 (actually Gp 1.5) which is a genuine class but it doesn't allow (require) things like plexiglass etc. Must run original panels, carbs/chokes and you can pick the bits up quite cheaply on Ebay. The CTCRC runs two championships for these cars - Post Historics (pre 74) and Pre 83 Group 1, because the Gp 1 regs changed in 1974.

The Class B MGB is a "clubbie" class but is cheaper and therefore if somone wants to race one is a better "austerity" bet than an FIA version.

The Youngtimer events will be the ones "pan Europe" to attract the entries IMO.

[simon drabble]

to stop the flak early I put my hands yup to being a race tart but if I had to reduce my racing to doing very "clubbie" rounds at unheard of tracks in a fibreglass MGB I would probably not race. If I wanted to continue racing on a budget I would be very tempted by the historic class of S2000. Pretty cars and cheap to run.

[delta]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

to stop the flak early I put my hands yup to being a race tart but if I had to reduce my racing to doing very "clubbie" rounds at unheard of tracks in a fibreglass MGB I would probably not race. If I wanted to continue racing on a budget I would be very tempted by the historic class of S2000. Pretty cars and cheap to run.

You correct there Simon. Historic Sports 2000 gets you into a lot of racing in Europe and they are very cheep to run.

[john ruston]

More races athome and less trips to Europe.That will be the immediate effect

[simon drabble]

but John you are a european resident - or are you saying that you are going to take advantage of the cheap £ to race here!!!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

to stop the flak early I put my hands yup to being a race tart but if I had to reduce my racing to doing very "clubbie" rounds at unheard of tracks in a fibreglass MGB I would probably not race. If I wanted to continue racing on a budget I would be very tempted by the historic class of S2000. Pretty cars and cheap to run.

To be fair I wouldn't exactly call Silverstone International, Brands, Castle Combe, Spa (oops!), Snetterton, Oulton, Cadwell or any of the other regular venues for the MGCC BCV8 championship "unheard of" would you?

Likewise CTCRC and therefore Masters Stars of the 70s Grp1 gets to the same locations.

But yes, the S2000s demonstrate my point perfectly. 1970's formula, rather than 1960's with restrictions.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by john ruston

More races athome and less trips to Europe.That will be the immediate effect

Yes, this is the other part of the equation. Although for some it makes no difference whether UK or Europe. Have to get them to come out here.

[john ruston]

The some are very few and are so board in their expat countries they spend their time writing nonsence on web sites such as this.The majority of cars and teams do come frome UK

[Peter Mallett]

Glad that's not me then. I've just got to my lunch break, been here since 05:45 am!

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

to stop the flak early I put my hands yup to being a race tart but if I had to reduce my racing to doing very "clubbie" rounds at unheard of tracks in a fibreglass MGB I would probably not race. If I wanted to continue racing on a budget I would be very tempted by the historic class of S2000. Pretty cars and cheap to run.

I don't call Spa, Dijon, Zandvoort, Nordschleife and Monza unheard of tracks yet I regard myself very much as a clubbie with FISC - and the MGB would be very welcome there too as the upper limit is 2 litres. Interestingly I've just realised I've raced at more circuits on mainland Europe than in UK, FWIW. I'm really not interested in FIA spec, the Lenham Le Mans coupe I'm building doesn't fit in - yet will hopefully look the part at 'old car' meetings.