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Old 24 Aug 2012, 18:09 (Ref:3124200)   #51
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Then they said they are working on a 2014 coupe to be powered by HPD.
Hmm? What chassis? As in Oak Pescarolo HPD coupe?
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Old 24 Aug 2012, 18:13 (Ref:3124204)   #52
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I believe the report was that it would be there own chassis with HPD power and that the first wind tunnel test would be conducted in October. I assume the 2014 HPD engine would not be a hybrid to take advantage of the privateer rules. Regardless, its great news. P1 privateer ranks are thinning and its good to see someone commit to the class for the next couple years with what will hopefully be a strong package.
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Old 24 Aug 2012, 18:19 (Ref:3124210)   #53
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Great indeed, but we need to have way more news like this to have a future for the class - currently there are only 7-8 privateer LMP1 cars running around on the entire planet (assuming that Pescarolo is indeed done and dusted) which is totally unacceptable, especially when the factory numbers are even lower. However now we at least have one privateer effort willing to meet the 2014 regs which is good
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Old 24 Aug 2012, 18:25 (Ref:3124212)   #54
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Wirth Research will most likely also build a LMP1 coupe for 2014.
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Old 24 Aug 2012, 19:03 (Ref:3124241)   #55
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FYI. The official press article about the deal between OAK Racing and HPD can be found http://endurance-info.com/version2/n...cus-12735.html
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Old 24 Aug 2012, 21:45 (Ref:3124318)   #56
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Really good news that Oak are in for the duration. That and a Wirth chassis will be great privateer options for '14.
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Old 24 Aug 2012, 22:59 (Ref:3124341)   #57
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This puts to bed the rumors that you must use the ARX chassis with the HPD engine.
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 05:37 (Ref:3124382)   #58
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Q&A With HPD’s Steve Eriksen

For 2013: "If there's opportunities for others to be powered by HPD, we'd be happy to do that. We have had some inquiries, mostly for P1 right now."
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 13:07 (Ref:3124536)   #59
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Translation: We really like to make money selling things; it helps ensure we all keep getting paid.
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 16:48 (Ref:3124640)   #60
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This puts to bed the rumors that you must use the ARX chassis with the HPD engine.
No rumor ever hear here. The Judd costs around 450,000EU, HPD around 800,000EU, and the TMG around 1,000,000EU. It's a matter of cost, nothing else. With the HPD being double the Judd, it makes sense.
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 18:33 (Ref:3124688)   #61
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No rumor ever hear here. The Judd costs around 450,000EU, HPD around 800,000EU, and the TMG around 1,000,000EU. It's a matter of cost, nothing else. With the HPD being double the Judd, it makes sense.
As pescarolo and oak just realised. the lmp1engine performance bar has been significantly raised in the last few years. But they are on a budget......you pay peanuts you get monkeys.........admittedley after the indycar fiasco i personally not pay judd double for a supposedley good lmp1motor......lets hope the hpd engine gets into the back of the dome too. they are a real plucky bunch and a real asset to the scene.
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 18:42 (Ref:3124691)   #62
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No rumor ever hear here. The Judd costs around 450,000EU, HPD around 800,000EU, and the TMG around 1,000,000EU. It's a matter of cost, nothing else. With the HPD being double the Judd, it makes sense.
The rumor was actually in these forums and mentioned plenty in the Honda thread. I never really payed much mind to it, but saw it mentioned here a lot. That's the only thing I meant by what I said.
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 22:38 (Ref:3124781)   #63
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Translation: We really like to make money selling things; it helps ensure we all keep getting paid.
Whats wrong with that , if they supply a quality product , as opposed to Judd's brilliant effort ?
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 23:28 (Ref:3124793)   #64
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Dude, where did you get the idea that there is something Wrong with that. I can tell you have never been in business.

Someone said HPD wouldn't sell engines without cars. Someone at Honda said "e are open to working with other teams"---which, to a business person, means exactly what i said. It was never about "You have to buy our chassis." That was an error (the Lola-Honda should have tipped people off.)

I thought it was funny that the guy at Honda had to dispel the rumor that HPD engines weren't for sale (or course, we don't know if that rumor lived anywhere but here, but it was humorous to me to imagine so) because Honda needed cash to keep in business like any business. Sort of, "The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated," but in a business sense.

Seriously, how could you interpret that as criticism? I point out that a business sells stuff to survive and you think there is something wrong with that?

I will just assume you have had a tough weekend or something and let it go. Maybe you wanted Toyota to win the pole and are taking out your disappointment on me.
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Old 25 Aug 2012, 23:46 (Ref:3124797)   #65
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It just seemed your comment was a little derogetrey ..... did I spell that right ?
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Old 26 Aug 2012, 05:15 (Ref:3124879)   #66
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The sad thing they have probably wasted more money repairing the Judd/getting new engines than they ever would have with an HPD unit.
Ill take a stab at it but I believe the HPD is all around better power/torque/driveabilty/fuel mileage but it also has a longer time between rebuilds and is very cost effective. They could probably do the entire season for one car on 3 engines. The first one used for events prior to Le Mans. The second one for Le Mans and the third one ]and first one(serviced/rebuilt) interchanged for the last events.

These engines seem to all be good for over 36 hours. whereas the Judd lifetime has been 1-2 hours...
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Old 26 Aug 2012, 08:50 (Ref:3124912)   #67
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It just seemed your comment was a little derogetrey ..... did I spell that right ?
No, but I guess it still works phonetically.....
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Old 26 Aug 2012, 09:20 (Ref:3124926)   #68
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Someone said HPD wouldn't sell engines without cars. Someone at Honda said "e are open to working with other teams"---which, to a business person, means exactly what i said. It was never about "You have to buy our chassis." That was an error (the Lola-Honda should have tipped people off.)

I thought it was funny that the guy at Honda had to dispel the rumor that HPD engines weren't for sale (or course, we don't know if that rumor lived anywhere but here, but it was humorous to me to imagine so) because Honda needed cash to keep in business like any business. Sort of, "The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated," but in a business sense.
I'd suggested this as a possibility.

This originally existed as an item of speculation for two reasons:
- There was no precedent for P1 engine supply (independent of chassis) on HPD's behalf.
- HPD's operational structure (as far as it concerns customer LMP supply) dictates engine/chassis development occur as a collaborative effort between two independent organisations; until recently, there'd been no official clarification concerning the entitlements of either, with regard to independent supply of P1 product/s.

It never made sound business sense for HPD to deprive itself of P1 engine sales, solely for the sake of potential chassis sales (via Wirth).
Although at the time, Wirth's entitlements (as a partner/beneficiary to the arrangement) weren't explicitly clear.
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Old 26 Aug 2012, 12:54 (Ref:3125087)   #69
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The sad thing they have probably wasted more money repairing the Judd/getting new engines than they ever would have with an HPD unit.
Ill take a stab at it but I believe the HPD is all around better power/torque/driveabilty/fuel mileage but it also has a longer time between rebuilds and is very cost effective. They could probably do the entire season for one car on 3 engines. The first one used for events prior to Le Mans. The second one for Le Mans and the third one ]and first one(serviced/rebuilt) interchanged for the last events.

These engines seem to all be good for over 36 hours. whereas the Judd lifetime has been 1-2 hours...
It's proven to be a false economy to go for a cheaper engine option when they lack performance, need to be "turned down" for race competition and even then have reliabitiy issues.

I'm sure Pescarolo would have prefered to run for 24 hours and get a solid run (and publicity) than be out in a few hours.

And just as I say that one of the few Judds in this race expires.
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Old 26 Aug 2012, 14:19 (Ref:3125221)   #70
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It's proven to be a false economy to go for a cheaper engine option when they lack performance, need to be "turned down" for race competition and even then have reliabitiy issues.

I'm sure Pescarolo would have prefered to run for 24 hours and get a solid run (and publicity) than be out in a few hours.

And just as I say that one of the few Judds in this race expires.
The best thing for Judd right now is to retire all the current LMP engine platforms. Get out of Indycar. Find some money and make an engine for 2014.

Right now they are at risk of losing ALL of there contracts with teams to HPD and Toyota.
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Old 27 Aug 2012, 15:47 (Ref:3125875)   #71
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Im rightly pizzed at Judd . At one time , everybody and his sister was running Judds .

They didnt even go down the TFSI route , with all the money they must have made from all the engines they had leased . And now they supply a right crock of !!!

That Oak/Morgan in the ALMS is showing OAK up right now , granted competition is a lot stiffer in WEC . When the ELMS comes to town at PLM , Im sure the teams will walk all over the ALMS teams .
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Old 27 Aug 2012, 16:17 (Ref:3125888)   #72
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That Oak/Morgan in the ALMS is showing OAK up right now , granted competition is a lot stiffer in WEC . When the ELMS comes to town at PLM , Im sure the teams will walk all over the ALMS teams .
It is somewhat interesting that the Morgans have all switched to the Nissan engine now. I didn't think the Judd P2 motor was that bad, but people seem to be abandoning it.
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Old 27 Aug 2012, 16:21 (Ref:3125890)   #73
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When the ELMS comes to town at PLM , Im sure the teams will walk all over the ALMS teams .
Level 5 came second in the ILMC P2 championship last year, and won PLM. I think the teams are closer than you might think.
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Old 28 Aug 2012, 14:17 (Ref:3126361)   #74
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It is somewhat interesting that the Morgans have all switched to the Nissan engine now. I didn't think the Judd P2 motor was that bad, but people seem to be abandoning it.
from the evidence this year the Judd-BMW LMP2 motor was very fast but has been fragile too, I seem to remember 1 of the Judd engined cars was leading at LeMans untill the motor went bang very early on.......there were also rumours of it rejecting alot of heat compared to other LMP2 engines........even on paper the Judd engine will consume more fuel and not have anywhere near as much torque compared to the bigger capacity lower revving Nissan........the Nissan LMP2 engine is winning for a reason, its a very sensible all-round customer engine.......but that aside Lotus and Status are still using the Judd-BMW, but I do still hear of them having problems with it.
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Old 28 Aug 2012, 16:53 (Ref:3126418)   #75
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from the evidence this year the Judd-BMW LMP2 motor was very fast but has been fragile too, I seem to remember 1 of the Judd engined cars was leading at LeMans untill the motor went bang very early on.......there were also rumours of it rejecting alot of heat compared to other LMP2 engines........even on paper the Judd engine will consume more fuel and not have anywhere near as much torque compared to the bigger capacity lower revving Nissan........the Nissan LMP2 engine is winning for a reason, its a very sensible all-round customer engine.......but that aside Lotus and Status are still using the Judd-BMW, but I do still hear of them having problems with it.
With the cost capping rules in P2 I guess engine decisions will mostly come down to packaging in a particular chassis or power/reliability. Oak/Morgan gave both the Judd and Nissan engines a try this year and have chosen the Nissan. I guess that is pretty good evidence of how the engines compare!
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