Fuel pricing in the UK

[SNH]

Carrie
I have some petrol in my garage, you bring the nurses uniform & ............

[SNH]

WVM
I think the protest is a good idea. But, jobs being lost in the haulage industry doesnt mean its right that other people lose their jobs, money, etc.
I work in the IT industry, freelancing, at the moment I'm in Holland working away from my family. There are no jobs for my skills in the UK at the moment. Now I hear that the Gov is going to relax immigration rules to allow foreign workers in who have the current popular skills. Wouldn't it be better to train people with computer knowledge in IT? Also, many freelancers have gone abroad because of IR35, shouldnt the Gov change those laws as well?
Maybe IT staff should stop the computers working for a few weeks........

[White Van Man]

I can only speak for the industry in which i'm involed but, to me at least, transport and IT don't seem the same thing at all. If there are so many unfilled vacancies for IT peeps, why can't some of these people who have choosen to work overseas go for them - getting tetrained if necessary?

What the goverment is doing to the transport industry with these ludicrous taxes is killing it. People are going out of business day in, day out - through absolutely no fault of their own. And these guys invariably don't have the means to get retrained for alternative careers. We are forced to work ridiculous hours - often breaking tacho laws - just to make ends meet, then we're made the scapegoat when someone falls asleep at the wheel, or a corner is cut and a wagon goes out without it's scheduled service.

The transport industry have been trying to demonstrate the problems to this goverment since they came to power without any success at all. If they refuse to listen to reasoned debate, they leave people with no choice at all but to take more determined action to demonstrate their displeasure at these policies.

[Sparky]

SNH, I'm afraid that's exactly what Tony Blah was talking about when he said any concession would pave the way for any group with a grievance to show unrest and withhold services 'til they get what they want. This is the real reason LG won't budge on this.

I don't blame you for suggesting it, even in jest, but that's exactly what people would do. I'm very torn on this subject. I fully appreciate that the govt. can't be seen to buckle to every protestors cause, but I'm also aware that it could be the only way to get it done.


WVM, I wrote my previous post just before Our Tone gave this evenings address to the nation.

It seems he's adamant the LG won't move an inch. As I said way up there at the top of the original thread, it's going to be a long struggle, and it's gonna turn nasty.

I suggested two week intervals, because everyone keeps on about three weeks to return to normal. A bit of strife at two weeks would be seen to defeat all the work that had gone in to restabilizing the market thus far. But as you suggest, WVM, it would have to be a TOTAL effort by every citizen that 'offers' support.

Can this be relied upon if the GBP gets pi**ed off 'cos they can't buy bread?

[White Van Man]

OK, change of tack here - what would YOU suggest as a better method of achieving the goal of bringing this very real problem to the attention of Blair and the general public ? We might not get them backing down at this time, but they'll find it very hard to ignore the feelings demonstrated come the next budget and ensuing election...

[TimD]

I'm afraid they've lost me.

I've worked on the road, I've every courtesy for the truckers I meet on the highway. I'd love to see fuel prices come down. I've paid more in fuel duty in the last year than I have had to do in income tax...

But they've lost me.

The rabble at Grangemouth "balloting" their supporters, and proclaiming it a triumph of democracy was a moment of vainglorious pomp the like of which I have never seen Tony Blair commit.

This evening, Mr Blair acknowledged that there were hauliers and farmers experiencing real suffering - the spokesman for the Grangemouth pickets refused to accept that the medical supply shortage in the NHS was anything to do with their action.

You don't have to be a politician to be an idiot.

I'm youngish, I'm able bodied. I live in the town. The worst that can happen to me is that I have to walk a bit to get my daily chores done. I can manage a long time, if necessary, before the blockade starts to bite. Apart from a wonderful motor racing meeting this weekend, I have no other use for the petrol I have left.

But not everyone is in my fortunate position. And for their sakes, I say that enough is enough. My neighbour is housebound and frail. We are making the preparations to step in because the home help can't make it anymore. The meals on wheels is still okay, but for how long?

The government, like it or not, cannot give in to this. If not, how long before every other special interest group, from the Anarchist Party to the Salvation Army start to regard this depth of mischief-making as legitimate.

It's got to stop - before the vulnerable people in society start to be irrevocably damaged.

[White Van Man]

You don't have to be a politician to be an idiot.

Sure helps though...

[TimD]

Sorry, WVM - you posted while I was writing.

The protest - as it stood, was fine. It demonstrated depth of feeling, and just how much damage COULD be done.

It is the length of time which is wrong.

Sparky is right - the best way forward is a gracious return to normality - with the threat of more disruption if nothing is done.

[SL]

From the LG latest plea for the drivers to clear the blockdes, I seem to get the idea that they are trying hard to spin out of this by making the drivers be the bad guys.

But if you look at the so called blockades all they consist of is a couple of trucks and 6 or 7 people. Hardly worth calling the army out for.

There is also a lot of support for the reduction of taxes, mainly to be in line with the rest of Europe, a saying that both parties wheel out when the boot is on the other foot. I don't see mobs of people fighting police like the poll tax demo's (Which then got changed). I can see the point about opening the door to anybody to who has an issue, but this one is about a very wide group, farmers, truckkers, taxi's etc all of whom use fuel and pay other taxes such a road tax on their personal transport and their work transport.

The fuel tax should be a fixed sum not a percentage that way we all know what we are paying. The latest from Sussex is no fuel at all in Brighton, some in Crawley and Horsham but it sells out very fast. The newest problem is the panic buyers stocking up on bread, milk and long life foods such as pasta, Tesco's this morning had almost ran out of bread and milk by midday.

On a lighter note

What's the differance between paraffin and petrol ???


Paraffin has 2 ef's but there's no ef in petrol.

SL

[Sparky]

Just spotted on the EuroRealist website...

How to achieve a petrol at £1.00 per Gallon - from tomorrow...

When Britain leaves the European Union the price of petrol could IMMEDIATELY drop to under 1 Pound a Gallon from the present price of 4 Pounds a Gallon or more.

Britain currently pays 1,800,000 Pounds an hour to be a member of the EU.

When Britain leaves the EU it will take some 10 minutes to pass a 3 line Bill through The House of Commons negating Britain's involvement in any and all treaties of the EU. There would be an IMMEDIATE gain of 1,800,000 Pounds an hour.

This money could be refunded to the tax payers by removing the fuel taxes, petrol would fall from 4 Pounds a Gallon to 1 Pound a Gallon IMMEDIATELY.
This would instantly reflect in a reduction of food prices and the price of ALL goods which require fuel for delivery.

THE FALL IN PRICES would IMMEDIATELY secure the jobs of many salespeople, van, car and truck drivers, whose companies are currently struggling to pay fuel costs.

The cost of heating would IMMEDIATELY fall for pensioners and low earners and the boom in the economy would IMMEDIATELY be felt by every citizen.

The beleaguered FARMERS would directly benefit, saving many of them from bankruptcy or suicide [current rate of suicide over 90 per annum].

The HEALTH SERVICE would benefit IMMEDIATELY, making massive savings on fuel that could be spent on essential operations and life saving.

EDUCATION would benefit IMMEDIATELY and the savings made on fuel could be spent on EDUCATION.

The FISHERMEN who use a great deal of fuel would benefit IMMEDIATELY and the saving would help tide them over, until the British Fisheries have recovered from being raped by EU fish policies.

There is no sector of the economy and no household in Britain which would not benefit IMMEDIATELY from the saving of 1,800,000 Pounds per hour when we leave the EU.

America's economy is booming with 5 percent annual growth and fuel costs in America are a fraction of those in Britain.

The best way to achieve IMMEDIATE reduction in fuel costs is leave the EU and save 16 Billion Pounds a Year [quote IoD figure] - this can be taken off of the tax on fuel and the benefits would be felt in EVERY home in Britain IMMEDIATELY.

"Britain currently pays 1,800,000 Pounds an hour to be a member of the EU." - Is this true??

[Invader]

Trollop

[Sparky]

I know she is, but is it true?

[Sparky]

I just popped down to my local 24hr filling station for some fizzies, and had a chat with the forecourt sales assistant who I know quite well. They still only have Emergency Service fuel supplies, and they are not on the list of preferred sites for delivery.

But, my friend and her fellow workers are planning to boycott the next tanker that arrives.

I smiled and said "Oh!" I didn't know what to say...

I tried to explain about my idea for a withdrawal of action, with the fortnightly threat and resumption, and I was accused of weakness! Didn't I realise what was necessary to 'win' this fight? I really don't know what to make of this. I live in a small market town. They certainly won't enamour themselves to the locals with this action, but they are sure this is the only way that the protest will continue, now that the refinery protests are failing.

I suggested they wouldn't be very popular, but they said all the regular customers that they had spoken to thought it was the way to go.
Ironically, I think all those that say they fully support the protest, will be among the first to complain when they are met with resistance at the pumps. This could be another stage of action, but I'm sure it will become every man for himself.

Have you spoken to anyone who is prepared to extend the protest beyond the refineries?

Would you be prepared to abandon your car for a few weeks in order to 'demonstrate' your unhappiness? Or will you see the panic and melee and dive in?

[SNH]

Sparky said
"NH, I'm afraid that's exactly what Tony Blah was talking about when he said any concession would pave the way for any group with a grievance to show unrest and withhold services 'til they get what they want. This is the real reason LG won't budge on this.
I don't blame you for suggesting it, even in jest, but that's exactly what people would do. I'm very torn on this subject. I fully appreciate that the govt. can't be seen to buckle to every protestors cause, but I'm also aware that it could be the only way to get it done. "

Why in jest???

I don't believe that further stoppages are the right way to go. Discussion would be better, they've proed they can stop the country. But the discussion must be fair BOTH ways, not each party saying this must be done & no compromise.

[angst]

Sparky, do you have the website address where you got that info? As to your question, nobody can say. And that's one of the points that I raised earlier - all figures are blurred/fudged/brushed under the carpet. I do know that we pay a great deal of money to be in the EU, and it seems to me that it is the biggest protection racket I have ever seen/heard of in my life. Basically the argument goes that if we're not in the EU then we won't be able to compete on a level playing field as the rest of Europe!!!?? Isn't that a threat? Basically - pay the money or we'll get you.
Maybe I've got it wrong, but that's the other side to this - we never get any sort of reasoned debate on the subject. Which makes me wonder what there is to hide.
But I agree with the general feeling that the protaests should be called off for now.
Now, around election time might be a good time for another set of protests.......

[Sparky]

SNH, sorry. I assumed by the way you added it to the end of your post, it was a 'funny'. But you also said that it is not the way to go, so I don't know...

Angst, the url is;

http://www.silentmajority.co.uk/eurorealist/petrol.html

Well. It would appear the protestors are listening to me!

They have announced (at some locations) that the blockade would be lifted, but that they expect a review/reduction within 60 days.

Others are hanging on, or have strengthened their resolve after seeing prices rise again.

"Why should we stop the protest, when the prices are higher than when we got here?" said one protestor to BBC TV news.

As I type Blair is on the box saying it's over...

We'll see!

[SNH]

Sparky
I was taking the protest to a maybe logical conclusion, if something's wrong, (in your belief), protest, stop the country get it changed to how you want it to be, (I am not implying that the aims of the protest in discussion are right or wrong in this statement).

As for it being the end, (Blair), hopefully he meant the end of his false, uncaring government

[Jay]

...and to think that people in Canada and the US call their gas prices an 'outrage'.

[Sarah]

At the moment there are about 100 protesters (who were at the Texaco and Elf/Murco refineries) in the Showground near where I live having a meeting to decide whether to go back to the refineries to restart the protests and are in contact with the other protesters across the country.

[Sparky]

What do you currently pay, Jay? US$1.70 per gallon?

That's about 35c a litre.

We pay 86 pence a litre at the moment, and with a dollar fifty to the pound, I reckon we pay about $6.00 a gallon...

Now THAT'S an outrage!!!

[Minardi fan]

This whole thing is out of hand, and what idiot decided that the nation is behind them? Every person I have asked has said that this whole protest is ridiculous.

Instead of topping up with fuel un-necessarily as all these idiots seem to be, why not all jump on public transport, and prove to the government just how **** it is?

As for this rush to the supermarkets... I stayed at Sainsbury's until 2am last night stacking the shelves. It looked as if a bomb had been dropped. We were totally out of milk and bread, and apparently in the first hour of Wednesday's trading our store took £50,000. It usually takes £42,000 over the whole day on a Wednesday.

The protest isn't getting us anywhere, and it's gone on too long.

[Carrie]

You've obviously not been talking to the same people I have Minardi Fan. I've only spoken to one person who doesn't back the protests, and he doesn't drive anyway. Everyone I work with is agreed, this was the right time to call off the protests. What started off as quite a disorganised group at Stanlow has proved how quickly they can bring this country to a standstill. Right now the people I see every day (and I've chatted to a few of our visitors as well) agree that it's now up to the government to act. They've been given their 60 days before the protests start again and I think people here are prepared for the blockades to re-start at that time and will support them because something needs to be done about fuel prices. I just got my monthly bank statement, of the 18 outgoing payments, 13 were on fuel and I've just worked out that's £233 on fuel in a month!!!!!!!
Public transport, what a joke, I work in a semi-rural area, near impossible and far too expensive to be a viable option for me. I'd spend £240 in a month just getting to and from work on public transport. My fuel costs might be high, but at least that covers a lot more than just commuting for work.

[Lorna]

I haven't met one person that is against the protests either. Alot of us are still worried about when we can get petrol but we will just live with it until it is over. Times were harder in World War II (as my Grandma reminds me). Have you seen the polls that have been running on radio stations and such like? I have heard an average of 90 odd percent are for the protests. The pricing of petrol has got ridiculous and the fact that we have people in this country who will shout out and say "enough is enough" is very admirable.

[Sparky]

MinardiFan, I understand your unhappiness at the protests.

But, and I mean absolutely no disrespect old chum, but how much do you spend on petrol each week?

[Minardi fan]

Yes yes, I knew that was coming!!!

Of course I can see that prices for petrol are disgustingly high in this country, but it has now gone on too long. It's just a shame that old *******face Mr. Blair insists on remaining as arrogant as ever.