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Old 21 Oct 2003, 06:47 (Ref:757860)   #1
Cynic
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Cynic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Rockinghams Kerbs

According to last weeks MN, formula three have cancelled their winter series because Rockingham have refused to modify (read remove)the kerbs on the chicane inside of turn 1 on the oval. Well I don't know how everybody else feels, but I'm with Rockingham on this one. Having watched various classes race there, it's obvious that if the kerbs are lowered, a formula three car could go through there almost flat out, which is the exact opposite reason the kerbs are there in the first place. The f3 bosses complain the cars are being damaged. Well there's an easy solution - keep off them! You aren't allowed to drive over the pavement when you turn the corner on the high street, why should it be any different on a racetrack? If the current crop of drivers can't tell the difference between a kerb (generally red and white), and the track (generally black), then perhaps the teams should look for some that can.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 09:35 (Ref:758034)   #2
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errrm, did you see the last F3 race there?
Katherine Legg hit the kerb relatively hard and the car gained air and flipped. There have been other incidents casued by the kerbs too.

I dont think they want the kerb removed, just lowered???
Makes sense to me.

I think Rockingham are being a bit dim, as F3 is a good attraction to have, especially as Rockingham is still making huge losses at the moment (according to the press).

Last edited by jonathanc; 21 Oct 2003 at 09:37.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 10:01 (Ref:758056)   #3
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I was on the outside of turn one.. all cars that had problems were systematically ignoring the track and having all four wheels off the circuit to abuse the kerbing, to get a faster line. - Basically cheating

Replace the kerb with a concrete wall.

The GT's had no problems but their cars had to last an hour and they treated it with respect.

In fact replace the marker posts with small children...

Lowering the kerb would mean they would ignore the track even more like the touring cars at fogerty's at Donny last year in qualifying. When not one car used the track at all.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 10:08 (Ref:758064)   #4
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In fact replace the marker posts with small children...
Just make one of them out of solid steel...




and dont tell the drivers which one it is

Although Peter Daly last year probably though they had already done that.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 10:09 (Ref:758065)   #5
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The basic problem with the chicane is the design doesn't cause them to slow enough, so they try to go flat when it needs a lift off. Extra tyre walls to narrow the straight and make the entry line into the chicane so tight you have to slow is what I believe is needed, as well as small children on the apex.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 10:12 (Ref:758067)   #6
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Oddly enough, it's actually that they need the kerb raised

Currently, the kerbing on the right of the chicane looks like this: -_

There is a step down on the outside of the chicane nearest the plastic markers. Now, because the kerb sweeps round away from the track, if you put a wheel (or the undertray of your car) on the lowest part of the kerb, when you exit the chicane, there's a bit step up. It's bad enough in a saloon - you get a big kick from the front right, but in an F3 car with very little ground clearance, you get a bit of a 'Legge up', if you excuse the Autosport-like pun..

Difficult to find a picture of it, but try this one:

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Old 21 Oct 2003, 11:19 (Ref:758127)   #7
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I have driven at Rockingham many times, and I believe that like all other circuits the track is provided to be driven on. We all try to steal as much as we dare, but the idea of complaining that the part you wanted to steal that you weren't meant to be on anyway isn't smooth enough is farsical. They should try racing at the Isle of Man.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 13:22 (Ref:758273)   #8
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Chigley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Isn't funny that the Minardi two-seater F1's and the single seater although not "racing" flat out were approaching the chicane at Turn 1 in excess of 200mph and were churning out clouds of brake dust when they hit the brakes and went down through 3 gears yet they managed to thread the eye of the needle without hitting the kerbs. Yet, F3 claim that the "eye" is too narrow and that at the "speed" they are approaching it is too difficult to take the corner clean so they are forced to take to the "tub breaking" kerbs. Cobblers, they need to slow down at bit more; and I agree that a tyre wall on both apex's would do the trick as it has at Post 10 (Oval to infield chicane).
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 15:16 (Ref:758396)   #9
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Youre dead right Chigley, although I have to say that a set of blinkers is definately required for the one at post 10.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 18:29 (Ref:758610)   #10
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Here's one for the F3 boys,A back to basics lesson.If you keep between the whhite lines that mark the edge of the track you would not have any trouble.F Renualt seem to manage as do countless other formule so why can't F3 drivers drive.If they insest on putting all fours on the kerb and more they get all they deserve.The teams shoulb tell there drivers where the track is if they want to stop damaging cars.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 18:44 (Ref:758619)   #11
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carrera should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
How will these up and coming kiddies cope if they ever get to Monaco?
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 18:51 (Ref:758629)   #12
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BigFella should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
easy, just refuse to race till they take the armco down.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 19:41 (Ref:758669)   #13
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If they stick to the track and dont cut the corner they will not damage the car.
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Old 21 Oct 2003, 23:27 (Ref:758860)   #14
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Originally posted by johndpeat
Here's one for the F3 boys,A back to basics lesson.If you keep between the whhite lines that mark the edge of the track you would not have any trouble.F Renualt seem to manage as do countless other formule so why can't F3 drivers drive.If they insest on putting all fours on the kerb and more they get all they deserve.The teams shoulb tell there drivers where the track is if they want to stop damaging cars.
Oh they can drive.
Just rememeber most of them are being groomed to be future F1 stars and we all know what they do mostly

I vote for the wall personally, could be a bit messy if you put kids there....

Last edited by Ian-S; 21 Oct 2003 at 23:27.
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Old 22 Oct 2003, 07:17 (Ref:759083)   #15
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But the negative PR of messying the kids would affect the driver getting sponsorshop. (fining drivers doesn't work, we know that)... And thats what seems to run motorsport this days the corporate people (just look at the SEAT hangar).
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Old 22 Oct 2003, 12:49 (Ref:759458)   #16
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Would any F3 drivers or team members who are reading this care to comment, lets hear from the horses mouth what's wrong with the kerbs!!
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Old 22 Oct 2003, 21:30 (Ref:760005)   #17
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With reference to Katherine Legge's accident at that dredded chicane. It was caused by Katherine running too far over to the right and consequently she hit the first part of the kerb which lifted the front up by a small amount but then as she came down the car caught the raised part causeing the air to get underneath the car and the rest you all know.

I personally dont think that there is a problem with the kerbs as it's only the "slicks and wings" typed cars that are having a problem. I have seen many races at Rockingham and I think it a great place. Maybe the Circuit manager can come on here and explain the scenario to us all

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Old 23 Oct 2003, 00:26 (Ref:760139)   #18
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But the negative PR of messying the kids would affect the driver getting sponsorshop.
...and the rest
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 00:37 (Ref:760142)   #19
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theres nothing wrong with the kerbs.....you cant modify them any more....theyre flat....the problem is because of teh camber change coming off the banking....if the cars stick to the track theres no problem.....funny its only slicks and wings that only have problems....and to be honest its only formula renault and f3
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 12:25 (Ref:760642)   #20
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Piglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPiglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPiglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
As I see it there clearly is a problem with the combination of the kerbs, corner etc. and cars with slicks and wings. A consequence of a driver making a fairly small error shouldn't be that the car flips over and that (as I see it) is the situation at the moment.

I can't see that F3 can run there without some alterations being made, there is a clear possibility that someone will get seriously injured and that will be enough to make those who may end up getting sued think very clearly about it.
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 12:40 (Ref:760665)   #21
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The F3 drivers weren't making small errors, it appeared from the outside of the cockpit to be consistant lap after lap, deliberately cutting the corner. Thats not driver error. Circuit couldn't be sued that. See sttached photo, and look where the marker post is, he is twenty+ feet off line ie straight lining the chicane
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 12:58 (Ref:760685)   #22
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The trouble is not the kerbs, it is the design of the chicane. Firstly, it is NOT there specifically to slow down cars, it is there because the rules state that a road circuit cannot use two consective corners of an oval )or something like that, don't have the book with me). I was discussing the chicane with a senior clerk of the course (and I do mean senior) last year and he told me that he would prefer to have the 'chicane' reprofiled as he agreed it was dangerous. In fact the Clios experimented with making it a stationar yellow zone to see if that helped....

straighten it, widen it and give it a better angle.
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 13:10 (Ref:760705)   #23
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Piglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPiglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPiglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally posted by mark ch
The F3 drivers weren't making small errors, it appeared from the outside of the cockpit to be consistant lap after lap, deliberately cutting the corner. Thats not driver error. Circuit couldn't be sued that. See sttached photo, and look where the marker post is, he is twenty+ feet off line ie straight lining the chicane
I think it's a small error - we'll have to agree to differ on this.

The organiser/circuit owner could be sued - as it stands at the moment is it reasonably foreseeable that someone could be injured given the current layout? Yes it is, IMO that's enough to give grounds for negligence. This is a problem that seems to be restricted to "slicks and wings" cars, I'm no expert on circuit layout - i dont know what is causing the problem, only that there clearly is a problem and it should be rectified.
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 14:14 (Ref:760811)   #24
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I drive slicks and wings at Rockingham, as far as I am concerned no error means you stay on the road, small error means you ride the kerbs and that presents no problem at that chicane, large error means you go inside the kerbs and risk being launched. We've all done it and been chucked into the air, the correct action is to restrict your errors to to small ones. that way you only get a bit of a teeth shaking.
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Old 23 Oct 2003, 20:13 (Ref:761198)   #25
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Les should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
think that photo just shows that young Melanie Healy made a rather large error there. It wasn't the norm.
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