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Old 22 Jun 2007, 17:06 (Ref:1944394)   #1
The Badger
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GT2 replaced by GT3 ..... ACO new idea

Im not sure if this has been mentioned before , so here goes .

I was talking to some German journalists at Le Mans who had been at the ACO press briefing .

Mentioned was the fact that the ACO are considering replaceing GT2 with GT3 . I was said that the ACO deem the GT2 cars to expensive and way too electronically advanced and want to reduce the cost .

Also said by a Porsche mechanic ..... the GT2 997 as we know it is more electronically advanced that a Porsche 911 GT1-98 .
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 17:28 (Ref:1944408)   #2
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Satorian has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I'm all in favour of it. GT3 offers many different cars, currently already has lots teams and seems on a sharp upwards trend. The cars look nice, resemble their road counterparts and they even go reasonably quick, with some more potential to be uncovered.

Go, GT3, go!
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 17:46 (Ref:1944428)   #3
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Personally I like things the way that they are now, as things are there is a nice balance across all the GT categories with the exception of GT4 which is struggling a little bit.
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 17:54 (Ref:1944432)   #4
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duke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridduke_toaster should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Sounds good, it seems like GT3 is becoming a popular class with plenty of diversity (Moslers, Cockmobiles AKA Porsches, Ferraris, Astons, Mustangs ...)
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 18:09 (Ref:1944445)   #5
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I wouldn't mind that much . but dont want the driver ruling to be in place for LeMans.. if they can get 3 "gold" drivers .. so be it
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 18:27 (Ref:1944465)   #6
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Who said anything about "gold" drivers? This is ACO, not the FIA GT3 European Cup. IMO this is ridiculous. The GT2 cars are already 30-40 seconds slower than the average LMP1 protos at Le Mans (never mind the Audi and Peugeot), you want to add another 10-15?
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 18:36 (Ref:1944480)   #7
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As I recall it the press briefing pretty specifically counted out GT3 at LM
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 18:44 (Ref:1944489)   #8
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As I recall it the press briefing pretty specifically counted out GT3 at LM
Not to be niggling, but so we are clear here. Are we talking the class "GT-3", or the cars that are in GT-3 being moved up as/to GT-2? Pretty sure I know the answer but would like clarification for all. As this I believe also goes to the Parallel thread on GT-1 at the moment.

L.P.

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Old 22 Jun 2007, 18:47 (Ref:1944495)   #9
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AFAIK we are talking about countinmg out the current cars running in GT3 running in a GT3 class at LM or in ACO racing - There is however the rather more grey area of reducing the electronics in the current GT2 cars - My guess is that we will end up with something betwen the two classes eventually
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 19:41 (Ref:1944529)   #10
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This is what i was getting at , but didnt word it correctly . An almost GT3 class but not in name GT3 ..... so I guess its a bit of a compromise between the 2 classes ..... but my point remains the same , the idea is to reduce the cost of GT2 , and to address the electronic issue .

Correct or not Graham ?
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 19:48 (Ref:1944533)   #11
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gttouring should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and since GT1 is withering to Aston and Corvette and Saleen only....
and sometime only GT1 in northamerica, why not.
make current Gt2 regs and change it to GT1 (introduce a New GT2 Corvette and Aston)
and move all the GT3 up to GT2 status...
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 21:11 (Ref:1944592)   #12
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Originally Posted by The Badger
This is what i was getting at , but didnt word it correctly . An almost GT3 class but not in name GT3 ..... so I guess its a bit of a compromise between the 2 classes ..... but my point remains the same , the idea is to reduce the cost of GT2 , and to address the electronic issue .

Correct or not Graham ?

I think that's very close to the truth - But I reckon we have a lot of politics left to wade through yet!
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Old 22 Jun 2007, 23:06 (Ref:1944648)   #13
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SALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSALEEN S7R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by gttouring
and since GT1 is withering to Aston and Corvette and Saleen only....
and sometime only GT1 in northamerica, why not.
make current Gt2 regs and change it to GT1 (introduce a New GT2 Corvette and Aston)
and move all the GT3 up to GT2 status...
Whithering to Aston Corvette and Saleen only? Well maybe that was the case at Le Mans this year but the Murciealgo can be competitve too as has been shown in FIA GT this season by the All-Inkl team. Added to that the MC12 is still extremely competitve, sure it doesent race at Le Mans but Maserati have said they are coming back to Le Mans with a new GT1 car soon too. At the moment we have 4 manufacturers that are competitve and that are eligable for Le Mans, 6 manufacturers if you go away from the ACO GT1 rules towards the FIA GT ones.
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 00:35 (Ref:1944683)   #14
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It takes about 18 months to properly develope a GT1 car , nothing on the horizon so far , and its the ACO rules that matter , not Fia GT , with respect to LM .

Nobody seems interested in making the Lambo into a 24 hour car and the Masa is not legal , and I havent heard anything about a new GT1 Masa recently anyway .

So , were talking about Corvette ,Aston Martin and Saleen . Great spectacle to watch though , but the fight seemed to peter out this year at Le Mans , with respect to last year anyway .
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 16:19 (Ref:1945016)   #15
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dj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
with regards to a so called GT1 problem there is these cars:

aston martin DBR9
corvette C6R
corvette C5R
saleen S7R
lamborghini murcielago RGT
koenigsegg CC-GTR
maserati MC12*
pagani zonda GTS
ferrari 550 GTS
ferrari 575 GTC

*maserati MC12 is restricted to the FIA GT and national GT championships only which is a big shame, if the car were allowed to do LM and the ALMS and LMS it would most assureadly make GT1 much more interesting and breat some new life in.

the new koenigsegg CC-GTR remains unraces and could potentially be a good car, the pagani zonda is a car which has raced few times but would be great with some development, yet this is unlikely now.

the lamborghini murcielago RGT has already demonstrated in this years spec with good drivers and team that it can win a race and do very well, imo its the darkhorse of GT1 along with the saleen S7R.

the ferrari 575 GTC and ferrari 550 GTS are both old and outdated cars now, but i still feel in the right hands that these cars could be damn quick still, especially the ferrari 550 GTS.
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 16:56 (Ref:1945028)   #16
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It would be sad to see the demise of GT1 ..... A class between Gt2 and Gt3 would certainly be exciting and there would be a lot of differant chassis that could compete , and would only need a reletivly small amount of tweaking to conform to the "new" rules , which we dont "really" know yet .

I think it would be a good idea .
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 19:50 (Ref:1945109)   #17
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JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj choc ice
with regards to a so called GT1 problem there is these cars:

aston martin DBR9
corvette C6R
corvette C5R
saleen S7R
lamborghini murcielago RGT
koenigsegg CC-GTR
maserati MC12*
pagani zonda GTS
ferrari 550 GTS
ferrari 575 GTC

*maserati MC12 is restricted to the FIA GT and national GT championships only which is a big shame, if the car were allowed to do LM and the ALMS and LMS it would most assureadly make GT1 much more interesting and breat some new life in.

the new koenigsegg CC-GTR remains unraces and could potentially be a good car, the pagani zonda is a car which has raced few times but would be great with some development, yet this is unlikely now.

the lamborghini murcielago RGT has already demonstrated in this years spec with good drivers and team that it can win a race and do very well, imo its the darkhorse of GT1 along with the saleen S7R.

the ferrari 575 GTC and ferrari 550 GTS are both old and outdated cars now, but i still feel in the right hands that these cars could be damn quick still, especially the ferrari 550 GTS.
But the only potential winners at the top level are Corvette, Aston and Saleen.

Corvette are openly talking of re-evaluating the GT1 program, Aston are looking at a P1 coupe, and have the GT3 DBRS9 which could be a great base for a GT2 car, while Saleen is a small specialist manufactuer.

If BGT can sustain 3-4 Aston DBRS9's, imagine how many upgraded GT2 examples could race on the international scene!

Who would turn their noses up at an ALMS GT2 grid consiting of four cars each from Porsche, Aston, Ferrari and Corvete.

Most people seem concerned about the speed and spectale of a new 'lower' class, but all you need to do is open up the restrictors a little and/or reduce weight.

A current 997 GT2 has 14in tyres and bigger restrictors, but is saddled with an extra 150kg or so, with a little tweaking you could probably take a much cheaper Carrera Cup car and make it as quick as the 997 GT2, for a fraction of the cost.

Last edited by JAG; 23 Jun 2007 at 19:56.
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 20:45 (Ref:1945120)   #18
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Originally Posted by JAG
A current 997 GT2 has 14in tyres and bigger restrictors, but is saddled with an extra 150kg or so, with a little tweaking you could probably take a much cheaper Carrera Cup car and make it as quick as the 997 GT2, for a fraction of the cost.
The figure that i heard about was , the cup car is about 180,000 euro cheaper that a 997 GT2 , for about 4 to 5 seconds a lap differance around the Nordschlife .....

A little tweaking should make it a little quicker .....
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 21:11 (Ref:1945128)   #19
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Originally Posted by JAG
A current 997 GT2 has 14in tyres and bigger restrictors, but is saddled with an extra 150kg or so, with a little tweaking you could probably take a much cheaper Carrera Cup car and make it as quick as the 997 GT2, for a fraction of the cost.
And you can probably without too much of a problem take out 200-250kg straight away, and make the car as fast as GT1 cars.
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Old 23 Jun 2007, 22:35 (Ref:1945164)   #20
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AU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAU N EGL should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj choc ice
with regards to a so called GT1 problem there is these cars:

aston martin DBR9
corvette C6R
corvette C5R
saleen S7R
lamborghini murcielago RGT
koenigsegg CC-GTR
maserati MC12*
pagani zonda GTS
ferrari 550 GTS
ferrari 575 GTC

*maserati MC12 is restricted to the FIA GT and national GT championships only which is a big shame, if the car were allowed to do LM and the ALMS and LMS it would most assureadly make GT1 much more interesting and breat some new life in.

the new koenigsegg CC-GTR remains unraces and could potentially be a good car, the pagani zonda is a car which has raced few times but would be great with some development, yet this is unlikely now.

the lamborghini murcielago RGT has already demonstrated in this years spec with good drivers and team that it can win a race and do very well, imo its the darkhorse of GT1 along with the saleen S7R.

the ferrari 575 GTC and ferrari 550 GTS are both old and outdated cars now, but i still feel in the right hands that these cars could be damn quick still, especially the ferrari 550 GTS.

FIA HOMOLOGATIONS GROUPES GT1 (until 1998) & GT (from 1999 to 2004)

Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A.
GT 015 MURCIELAGO Début d'Homol. 01.04.2004 Fin : 2011

Saleen Mustang SR
GT1 001 SALEEN S7 TWIN TURBO Début d'Homol. 01.05.2006 Fin : 2013

General Motors
GT1 002 CORVETTE Z06 Début d'Homol. 01.05.2006 Fin : 2013

Aston Martin Lagonda Ltd
GT 016 DB 9 COUPE Début d'Homol. 01.06.2004 Fin : 2011

Ferrari
GT 014 575M MARANELLO Début d'Homol. 01.10.2003 Fin : 2010

Maserati Spa
GT 012 3200 GT Début d'Homol. 01.04.2002 Fin : 2009
GT 017 MC 12 – 5'998.8cc Début d'Homol. 01.11.2004 Fin : 2012+

Chrysler
GT2 5 DODGE VIPER GTS Début d'Homol. 01.04.1996 Fin : 2009

Saleen Mustang SR
GT 013 SALEEN S7 Début d'Homol. 01.04.2003 Fin : 2011+


FIA HOMOLOGATIONS GROUPE GT2 (As from 2005)

Porsche
GT2 003 911 GT3 RS (997) Début d'Homol. 01.02.2007 Fin : 2014

Lotus
GT2 002 EXIGE – 1'796cc Début d'Homol. 01.09.2005 Fin : 2012

Ferrari SpA
GT2 004 F430 Début d'Homol. 01.03.2007 Fin : 2014

Maserati SpA
GT2 001 Coupé Gran Sport – 4'243.83cc Début d'Homol. 01.04.2005 Fin : 2012+


Now I did not see the Spyker or the Panoz. Sometimes these tech regs on the FIA.com web site are not easy to understant.
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 00:50 (Ref:1945905)   #21
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Would love to see the GT3 cars running as the GT2 class. Just from reading on here the variety seems pretty good, although I do like the RSR look over the cup cars. How does Belcar compare to GT3 level cars, found some pics from the last race and love the Exige(I'm guessing) that was running, but I have always wished for an Exige LM edition.
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 12:42 (Ref:1946280)   #22
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Would love to see the GT3 cars running as the GT2 class. Just from reading on here the variety seems pretty good, although I do like the RSR look over the cup cars. How does Belcar compare to GT3 level cars, found some pics from the last race and love the Exige(I'm guessing) that was running, but I have always wished for an Exige LM edition.
Wasnt the Elise GT1 close enough?
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Old 25 Jun 2007, 14:22 (Ref:1946348)   #23
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dj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddj choc ice should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
the elise GT1 is a fairly old car now and in race terms is a dinosaur, and it wasnt exactly based around the elise road car to my own knowledge, it was a prototype clothed in elise look a like bodywork, still it has to be one of the best looking cars to ever come out of lotus imo.

on the contrary of lotus werent there not talks of lotus looking at building a LMP1 coupe for the 2010 regs or has this now been scrapped?.

also it would good on the GT2 front to see the lotus exige GT300R racing as well, i think that is what it was called and it did one race which i think was dubai FIA GT in 2005, any more word on this car?.

regarding a GT2 to GT1 kind of inbetween class, give the current GT2 car's GT1 spec tyre's and carbon brake's, GT1 spec rear wing and no air restrictor, power would probably be around 550bhp.

for a new GT2 i would say give GT3 car's in, larger air restrictor, about an extra 30-50bhp and the same weight's they run in the FIA GT3 championship and it should be good.

i for one would love to see the ford GT, corvette Z06 GT3's and lambo's and ferrari F430 GT3's going head to head, not to mention the best car's of all, the ascari KZ1R and aston martin DBRS9's.

oh yes and give them fully straight exhaust pipes, then the ascari would sound gob smackingly good, and it already sounds amazing, the best sounding GT car atm
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Old 26 Jun 2007, 17:09 (Ref:1947425)   #24
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Dani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridDani Filth should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
the appeal of GT3 now is the variety of cars and massive numbers .. but as a class for LeMans we would lose both .. how many entries would it get for LeMans?? .. not enough ..
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Old 26 Jun 2007, 21:10 (Ref:1947629)   #25
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Can't say i agree that Maserati would breath life in, it still needs further restriction in my opinion.

Back on point, its not so much a replacement as a downgrading isn't it?
But it would seem ludicrous, with speed differentials already so high?
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