"ALL American cars are RUBBISH."

[bella]

watching americans try and attempt to drive around a corner is hilarious. they're all over the place.

american cars are the shame. all mouth and no trousers.

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by bella
watching americans try and attempt to drive around a corner is hilarious. they're all over the place.

Have you ever been to New York City? It's full of corners, all 90 degrees- The only cars having trouble with those are some of the extra long stretch limo's!

Originally posted by bella

american cars are the shame. all mouth and no trousers.

Sounds like some racing drivers....

[Lee Janotta]

Oh poo on you, bella.

We've got damn good drivers. But we don't have _any_ damn standards for driving competence, and that's the problem!

I understand in the UK driver's tests are taken in stick-shift cars? Hah, if I get asked by one more of my countrymen what that there faggy-lookin' little pedal on the left is for, I'm gonna deck someone.

Suffice to say, at least two thirds of the people on our roads have no business behind the wheel of a car. A third can't even read the road signs.

But Tristan, the fact is, anytime we really want to, our cars can kick yours all over a race track, and have done numerous times. And that's what you can't handle.

And of course, the Germans are the only ones who can consistently beat our cars on the race track.

(and no, single seaters don't count, just tintops)

[Tristan]

"Tristan, I have no problem with what you think. It's the way you state opinions as if they were solid carved-in-stone facts that I fibd irritating!"

You do realise that I... um.. exaggerate somewhat??

[Tristan]

Oh, and bluebottle mon homi...

Ford Mondeo - Nope, never driven that one either, BUT What Car (who I'd class as more than reputable) gives it ***** for Ride and Handling saying "Ford sets the standard for chassis dynamics. The new Mondeo is a big car but doesn't feel it because its body movements are so well controlled and its steering is so alert. It also delivers a marvelously fluent ride as long as you avoid the 17in wheels and low-profile tyres that can make things too firm around town."

DRIVER'S CAR. <--- smug grin.

[Bluebottle]

I wonder what word triggered the autocensor there

I havn't driven a Mondeo but Hurricanes dad has one, and he says the best car he ever bought was....



The Mk2 Granada Me and Hurricane still have
(I wouldn't call that a drivers car either btw, but I was glad to get back to driving it after a rented Nissan Almera on a recent holiday!!)

Good point about the low-profiles, they can really wreck a cars feel and handling on anything but the best surface!

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta

I understand in the UK driver's tests are taken in stick-shift cars?

That the normal thing here, but you can take a test with an autobox, but that only gives you a license to drive an auto and nothing else.
Does a standard US license allow you to drive both or do you have to have do a test on a stick-shift if you want to drive one?

[Bluebottle]

By the way, I should come clean (now I've stoped laughing...) and say that if I had to chose a modern clonebox to replace the trusty Mk2 I'd put the Mondeo near the top of the list.
Just below the Mustang.

[Woolley]

Ok, some worthwhile points here:

Most cars are terrible, they're what the manufacturers want to sell us, and we're mad enough to think they're ok. Ford Mondeo? plleeease. Front wheel drive? NO thanks.

American cars are no worse than European cars, they just have different road systems.

3/4 of the drivers in the world shouldn't be on the road. Nothing to do with manuals/autos, some people just can't drive properly. Period.

If you want a really decent car, you're best going to a specialist who builds for enthusiasm not corporate sales policies, but don't expect it too last too long.

[Flatspot]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Suffice to say, at least two thirds of the people on our roads have no business behind the wheel of a car. A third can't even read the road signs.

Amen, Lee. I'd have to guess that only about 2% of the drivers in the USA could be classified as "damn good" and maybe another 20% as "safe to be on the road with".

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Hah, if I get asked by one more of my countrymen what that there faggy-lookin' little pedal on the left is for, I'm gonna deck someone.

No Sh*t!

That's one thing I really hate about cars sold in America. Trying to get a manual transmission has become very difficult. I had to sacrifice .5 liter in my latest car's engine to get the "economy" model with a stick and then spend a bucket load of money to get the thing upgraded to a reasonable standard. 90% of the people who get in it are flabbergasted and can't beleive I would choose to shift my car by myself. What a joke.

[Tristan]

I... disagree!!

[Bluebottle]

Originally posted by Woolley


If you want a really decent car, you're best going to a specialist who builds for enthusiasm not corporate sales policies,

Indeed! Two out of our three cars come into the 'specialist' category. The one we bought recently has a window sticker proclaiming it to be a 'Hand built specialist sports car' (built not far from Woollley's place)
On top of all that, specialist cars, kits etc are much more interesting than Cloneboxes, wherever they come from!

[Tristan]

I agree on that point, of course, but there are some thoroughly decent mass-produced cars. Not ALL mass produced cars are rubbish. And yet that doesn't seem to be the case accross the pond... hmmm...

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Bluebottle
That the normal thing here, but you can take a test with an autobox, but that only gives you a license to drive an auto and nothing else.
Does a standard US license allow you to drive both or do you have to have do a test on a stick-shift if you want to drive one?

Proving you can go once around the block in your grandmother's automatic Cavalier without breaking any laws or crashing gets you a liscense to drive anything up to and including an SUV the size of a small house OR a twin-turbo Viper!

There's nothing resembling a graduated licensing system in the states, aside from the short-term "learners permits" every idiot gets when they turn 16, which requires them to drive under the supervision of someone with a liscense... So your 19 year-old cousin with a DUI and 3 accidents on his record is considered a competent instructor!

The only "superior" liscenses you can get is either a motorcycle endorsement on your basic liscense, or a CDL (Commercial Driver's Liscense), which actually does take some skill to get, as you have to successfully maneuver an 18-wheeler in that test.

I think Virginia was experimenting with a more sensible system, but I don't know if anything came of it.

Oh, and as I hinted at, you don't have to be able to read the language the road signs are in... The Department of Motor Vehicles supplies the written portion of the exam in dozens of languages, while the signs here are only in one.

Yes, not a big concern with the recognizable "STOP" sign, but what about "High Accident Area", "Reduced Speed Ahead", or "Construction Area: Fines Doubled"... Signs you can't recognize just by their shape.

Of course, they also give licenses to people born here who are functionally illiterate, so...

[Flatspot]

This goes off topic but...Your motorcycle license is an even bigger joke. They need to fix this, big time. A prime example; my 18 year old nephew went down on a Honda XR80, avoided running the partially hidden stop sign, weaved through 6 cones and presto he had his motorcycle license for any motorcycle. He promptly went to the bike shop and for 0 down, 0 interest and a $35 per month payment 'til 2004 rode out the door on a 750cc crotch rocket that I suspect does around 140mph, maybe more. He has less than 20 hours on a motorcycle of any kind.

I love bikes but that is sheer lunacy, if not neglegent. I suspect the insurance company will end up paying for the bike.

[Bluebottle]

Here in the UK, motorcyclists are the best trained road users (apart from those who've done an Advanced Driving course, but thats another thread.....)

[krt917]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
But Tristan, the fact is, anytime we really want to, our cars can kick yours all over a race track, and have done numerous times. And that's what you can't handle.
(and no, single seaters don't count, just tintops)

Sorry, I know this is slightly off the main point - which seems to have been well covered now - but do you think you could elaborate on this point Lee as I think it might be slightly...optimistic. Why are single-seaters excluded too? Is it because they would contradict your point?

Just asking

[garcon]

I seem to remember one of the GM Calloway Corvettes (GTS class) running ahead of one of the Bentleys (LMP900) for a good while at Le Mans a couple of years back. That was impressive. Not as spectacular as the fire that brought an end to the second Cadillac prototype near the end though...

I can't remember the name of it, but there's a road race held in the States every year. Not the Cannonball, before you ask. It's run over a stretch of highway, the cars go at 2 min intervals, fastest time over the route wins. Now, of course it is on roads that are pretty straight, apart from some biiiiiiiiiiig bends and a couple of bowel opening crests - so it's not just a long drag race. Various enthusiasts with Tristan's point of view have brought 911s, Ferraris, Lambos and such over to "teach those yanks what a sports car is". And every single time they've been blown into the weeds by mildly tuned Corvettes that'll do the route at an average speed over 200mph.

But back to the point - the only tin top racing where US and European cars regularly compete against each other is GT racing, where big robust engines are as important as handling.

[ss_collins]

simple, most americans can't drive, its not the cars its the drivers - automatics do not involve any driving whatsoever, sure put a huge engine into a huge car and bolt it to a self shifter, wallowy suspension to that mix, voila an American car. but a good car? no, a terrible terrible car results. With terrible terrible drivers.

[garcon]

Why can you never find old pictures when you want. I had a copy of that spoof (I think!!) Fiat advert from years back -

"The Fiat Tempra -

[picture of computer design drawings]
designed by computers

[picture of production line]
built by robots

[picture of huge smouldering motorway pile-up]
driven by Italians..."

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by krt917
Sorry, I know this is slightly off the main point - which seems to have been well covered now - but do you think you could elaborate on this point Lee as I think it might be slightly...optimistic. Why are single-seaters excluded too? Is it because they would contradict your point?

Just asking

I'm selectively picking examples to distort the evidence.

But this _is_ the road car forum...

[garcon]

You should havce a career in politics, young man!

But anyway, you're right - this IS the Road Car Forum. What on earth has (selective ) racing success got to do with the cars on US roads?

Ah - think I've just flipped sides! Tristan! You're no longer alone!

Two words: Chrysler Neon.

[429CJ]

British cars are not rubbish? Two words: British Leyland!

[garcon]

Ah, but British Leyland doesn't exist anymore. Thankfully.

British Leyland in the late 70s didn't really prove anything about the quality of British cars. It just proved that corrupt Trades Union lead Socialism is no way to run a car industry. Or a country for that matter.

[429CJ]

...and just to underline my comment...