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Old 17 Sep 2009, 17:37 (Ref:2542930)   #1
andy97
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unusual Historic Race/ Rally cars

This weeks MN has a couple of pieces about unusual race/ rally cars & by that i mean that cars that have been brought in to competition that were not really considered to be competition cars in their production days. In this case I am talking about a Ferrai 308GT4 that competed on Tour Britannia and a Porsche 928 that competed on the Tour of Flander rally. I know that both have been used in club motorsport in the past but they were never really mainstream competition cars.

To me its a good thing to have variation but i wonder whether its because historic motorsport has become very popular & yet some historic cars are very expensive & so alternatives must be found. Have modern prep techniques/ developments meant that these sorts of cars are now more (relatively) competitive than they were.

Should cars that were not competition cars in their original time frames be competition cars now?

Discuss!

Personally i think its great to see different cars out.
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Old 17 Sep 2009, 20:17 (Ref:2543032)   #2
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I'm with you on liking to see unusual cars- though I can see the potential problem if a combination of modern developments and suitably lax eligibility standards were to allow something with no real competition background in period to be 'hot-rodded' into a highly competitive car.

Otherwise, I'm happy to see them- even at international level, there's usually been someone campaigning an unlikely car in most categories of motorsport (eg the Porsche 928 you mentioned- I'm not aware of the 928 having any rally history, but French privateer Raymond Boutinaud raced one a couple of times at Le Mans and a few other international sportscar races around 1983/4: http://www.amicale928.org/media/Lm83c.jpg ) so I don't have any objection to that being reflected in historic racing
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Old 5 Aug 2011, 14:10 (Ref:2936151)   #3
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there's usually been someone campaigning an unlikely car in most categories of motorsport (eg the Porsche 928 you mentioned- I'm not aware of the 928 having any rally history, but French privateer Raymond Boutinaud raced one a couple of times at Le Mans and a few other international sportscar races around 1983/4: http://www.amicale928.org/media/Lm83c.jpg ) so I don't have any objection to that being reflected in historic racing

Strangely, a friend of mine has just told me that he used to have a T reg Porsche 928 that he used on the stages many years ago (Ive known him years & didn't know!). He also had a Volvo 240 with 740 Turbo engine it at some point. OK, club level stuff but I find it interesting, nevertheless!

Last edited by andy97; 5 Aug 2011 at 14:17.
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Old 5 Aug 2011, 14:15 (Ref:2936155)   #4
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I remember a Ford Cortina Mk3 coming out with the CTCRC at Cadwell in the early 2000s, looked like a fairly standard road car, metallic baby blue. Went out for a few laps in qualifying but didn't do the race though.
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Old 5 Aug 2011, 21:26 (Ref:2936312)   #5
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The Ferrari 308 as the 2-seat GTB was homologated into Group 4 in the 1970's and used quite widely (if I remember correctly) in European tarmac rallying with some success. I think one took an overall victory in the Targa Florio some time in the early 80's and later in 2004 won the Tour Auto revival event. There was also a Ferrari 308 GT4/LM which ran at Le Mans in 1974 and failed to qualify for the same event in 1975.

Not sure about the 928 though..........
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Old 6 Aug 2011, 16:11 (Ref:2936469)   #6
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....still remember there being a lot more variety, when I started historic racing with the HSCC some 17 years ago.

I particularly remember the signwritten Jensen Interceptor(!) of Colin Jasper(?), racing in HRS. Don't recall it finishing a lot of races, though....
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Old 6 Aug 2011, 21:38 (Ref:2936673)   #7
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There's always the Lamborghini Gallardo that Reiter Engineering turned into a rally car:

http://www.reiter-engineering.com/en...do-rallye.html

Not historic, admittedly, but certainly unusual
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Old 6 Aug 2011, 21:50 (Ref:2936685)   #8
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Bernard Darniche used a 308 in the past... French Rally and possibly European Championship.
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Old 6 Aug 2011, 22:07 (Ref:2936712)   #9
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medius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmedius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Is Glenn Canning's NSU TTS the only one in the UK? They are popular in Germany in Historic racing though, so might not count...
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 06:33 (Ref:2936797)   #10
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Can't think of any others over here- they were a fairly common car in the small classes in touring car racing in Germany in the 70s, so not surprised if they're popular in historics over there now

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...rburgring.html
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 13:03 (Ref:2936864)   #11
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What about the Toyota Corona raced and rallied by Andy Johnson of svgmotorsport think its the only one in Europe.
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 15:39 (Ref:2936898)   #12
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Alan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
How many Citroen SM's were used in racing?

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Old 7 Aug 2011, 16:04 (Ref:2936903)   #13
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Fabulous but given the SM's front tyre wear, I doubt that it was a very long race?
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 16:31 (Ref:2936908)   #14
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Fabulous but given the SM's front tyre wear, I doubt that it was a very long race?
Avon Tour of Britain, so mix of rally stages and short-ish races. There was an attempt to run an SM at Le Mans in the early 70's, but it didn't make the cut in qualifying...
http://www.citroracing-historique.or...M_Le_Mans.html
...and a handful of appearances in the Spa 24 hours touring car race around the same period.

A fair amount of rally activity though
http://users.skynet.be/sky38711/allf...n_sm_sport.htm

Has anyone tried to use one in historics- either race or rally?
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 16:33 (Ref:2936909)   #15
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THe Mk3 Cortina sustained damage about 3 years ago at Croft didnt look a write off though, I dont think it was a proper car either as they let it run with 3 litre Essex power although a SA version is like that so could be argued OK I guess. Andy still has the Toyota with a ding in the door he got at Lydden last year.
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 17:44 (Ref:2936922)   #16
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(Citroen SM) Has anyone tried to use one in historics- either race or rally?
There is a welll-known one competing in regularity type rallies crewed by Bob & Anne Linwood. Came 2nd on Tour Britannia last year.
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 18:01 (Ref:2936925)   #17
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 18:10 (Ref:2936926)   #18
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Alan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridAlan Raine should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
From the same Avon Tour. How many "Grannies" were raced and rallied?

This is Vern Schuppan at Knebworth Park

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Old 7 Aug 2011, 19:01 (Ref:2936939)   #19
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From the same Avon Tour. How many "Grannies" were raced and rallied?
(anorak on...) Thought it may be a Consul GT that survived the 'celebrity' race series of 1972&3, but apparantly they all had XVX---L registration numbers. UEV looks like a Ford issued number, nevertheless. What year Alan- 1971 or 2?

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Old 7 Aug 2011, 19:10 (Ref:2936941)   #20
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 19:42 (Ref:2936944)   #21
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From the same Avon Tour. How many "Grannies" were raced and rallied?

This is Vern Schuppan at Knebworth Park
There was certainly a Consul GT around in historic rallying in the late 90s- can't find a pic, but there was a model of it released. From vague memory, someone used on on the RAC at least once in the mid-70's

http://elitemodelautomobiles.co.uk/P...d/DVA55001.jpg
http://www.fordmotorsportmodels.com/...0GB%201998.jpg
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Old 7 Aug 2011, 20:09 (Ref:2936954)   #22
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(anorak on...) Thought it may be a Consul GT that survived the 'celebrity' race series of 1972&3, but apparantly they all had XVX---L registration numbers. UEV looks like a Ford issued number, nevertheless. What year Alan- 1971 or 2?

1973.

James Hunt won in a Camaro. Good for race tracks, maybe not so good on Rally Stages.
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Old 8 Aug 2011, 07:17 (Ref:2937055)   #23
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From the same Avon Tour. How many "Grannies" were raced and rallied?

This is Vern Schuppan at Knebworth Park

I seem to remember a couple of (Metropolitan?) Police officers competing the RAC Rally in a Granada in the mid to late 70's. The car was complete with flourescent pink stripe down the side (just like the 'jam sandwich' patrol cars) and ran through the special stages with two-tone horns blaring! (Well, they did through the Bardon Hill Quarry where I was spectating!)
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Old 8 Aug 2011, 07:41 (Ref:2937059)   #24
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And the same car which was owned by Richard Lloyd (RiP) is still competing in the Brittania.
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Old 8 Aug 2011, 11:25 (Ref:2937143)   #25
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Remember that "police" car on the RAC.....

Not good on my Ferrari model numbers, but I know that Tony Worswick, who I think does some Ferrari racing these days, used to rally his 308 (I think) in events at least in the North-west.....I remember him being on several stage rallies when we were competing in the Lada Challenge (which would have been late 80s)....on one event the Ferrari "might" have gained a "recycled Lada" sticker on the rear.....

I'm sure Tony has had the car out on some "Slowly Sideways" events, too.....
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