Is Pat Symonds under paid?

Greenback · 24 May 2006, 08:00 (Ref:1617657)

It seems like more and more teams are trying to lure Pat Symonds away from Renault. According to F1 racing magazine, Pat is one of the lowest paid engineer among the top teams, and also the brainiest when come to race strategies

http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/head...24094500.shtml

littlefarny · 24 May 2006, 08:10 (Ref:1617665)

Renault are notorious under-payers.
If they want to keep him, they need to buck their ideas up and offer him a decent contract.
He may have been there for years, but the lure of money may just make him snap away.

Greenback · 24 May 2006, 08:43 (Ref:1617699)

Its kinda funny that renault actually has to to annouce that they are willing to pay top dollars for top drivers and committed to F1 beyond 2008. If they could have done so earlier, i am sure Alonso will still be with them for another few good years.

littlefarny · 24 May 2006, 08:48 (Ref:1617703)

They'll be kicking themselves now, or maybe it was deliberate to try and shake him off before he became a drain on the coffers.

**Born Racer** · 24 May 2006, 11:22 (Ref:1617802)

So, are we to think Alonso left because of his salary, or because he wasn't sure Renault were going to stick around and wasn't prepared to wait?

Incidentally, how much has Alonso been earning these last few years, and how much will McLaren pay him?

**Bononi** · 24 May 2006, 12:06 (Ref:1617833)

Good question, and I think it's all about money. McLaren certainly made a much better offer than Renault and got the kid...

Greenback · 24 May 2006, 14:12 (Ref:1617918)

reason mclaren are willing to pay more is because Merc and Mclaren is able to generate better return from their investment F1 than Renault. for Merc they have the SLR/AMG, for renault the only have the CLIO. I think Renault knows that it is foolish of them not to capitalise on their success and by leaving F1 they will be left with nothing. I believe in the next few year, we will be seeing Nissan moving toward high performance cars that can utilise F1 technology.

Super Hans · 24 May 2006, 14:17 (Ref:1617919)

I have no idea what Pat Symonds is paid, but I bet that he earns every penny. He is an essential part of Renault's recent success, and I'm sure that Renault will offer him improved terms if rival teams are trying to lure him away.

Greenback · 24 May 2006, 14:20 (Ref:1617922)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

So, are we to think Alonso left because of his salary, or because he wasn't sure Renault were going to stick around and wasn't prepared to wait?

Incidentally, how much has Alonso been earning these last few years, and how much will McLaren pay him?

I believe it is a combination of both, however I personally feel that alonso doesnt really know how to handle the business aspect of F1. If I am alonso I will definitely give renault the first right of refusal because,

a) They have a good car
b) There is a strong team spirit within the team
c) There is alot of uncertainty within Mclaren.

Alonso should have used Mclaren's offer as a bargaining tool to negotiate with renault. If renault intend to remain in F1, I am sure they will definitely be able to match what Mclaren is paying.

Btw, mclaren is not ferrari and I doubt Mclaren is willing to offer alonso more than what they are willing to offer kimi. To me, alonso is a back up plan for mclaren when kimi leave.

Greenback · 24 May 2006, 14:22 (Ref:1617927)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I have no idea what Pat Symonds is paid, but I bet that he earns every penny. He is an essential part of Renault's recent success, and I'm sure that Renault will offer him improved terms if rival teams are trying to lure him away.

After what happen to alonso, I am sure they will defintely have to keep Pat within the team. As we all know that F1 is 80% car/team and 20% driver. Hence I believe whoever is going to join Renault is definitely going to make alonso look stupid.

Knowlesy · 24 May 2006, 17:53 (Ref:1618092)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlefarny

Renault are notorious under-payers.
If they want to keep him, they need to buck their ideas up and offer him a decent contract.
He may have been there for years, but the lure of money may just make him snap away.

Well such is Pat's status, that there will always be someone willing to pay "that bit more" to secure his services.

Do Renault need to buck their ideas up? They have tended to work to a budget, and very successfully too I might add. They won't pay over their own odds to keep Pat. And Renault is not a one man band by any means.

And does Pat want the big bucks? Would he forsake a great team that he has built and retained over several years for the big pay day? I'm not so sure.

chillibowl · 24 May 2006, 20:12 (Ref:1618187)

who's to say what someone will do when offered a truck load full of money, but an engineer's career is alot longer than a drivers and so i cant imagine Pat having the same need to "chase the money" as say a driver or any athlete for that matter.

but who knows, maybe Pat S. still has alot of student loans to pay off

**Bononi** · 24 May 2006, 20:53 (Ref:1618212)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenback

reason mclaren are willing to pay more is because Merc and Mclaren is able to generate better return from their investment F1 than Renault. for Merc they have the SLR/AMG, for renault the only have the CLIO. I think Renault knows that it is foolish of them not to capitalise on their success and by leaving F1 they will be left with nothing. I believe in the next few year, we will be seeing Nissan moving toward high performance cars that can utilise F1 technology.

Somehow Greenback your logic could be right, but if you reverse it, it would make more sense, at least in a marketing perspective. The only positive point for Renault, is the success in F1. In their current position in the market, it's too good to let it go. Renault ads in TV and magazines are making use of this and it certainly has a good response. Ford sold very well when they were linked to Benetton Ford Z-Tech, and they claimed that their cars had the same technology.
So, I really wonder how much Renault will lose, letting Alonso go, though I believe Renault believes the team/engine are the key to win more championships.

Super Hans · 25 May 2006, 07:37 (Ref:1618424)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

And does Pat want the big bucks? Would he forsake a great team that he has built and retained over several years for the big pay day? I'm not so sure.

This is a very good point.

We musn't assume that Pat values money above all else. He's been with the team since their Toleman days, so he has an emotional attachment, and clearly loves his job.

dazbaz_99 · 25 May 2006, 09:00 (Ref:1618468)

Is Pat Symonds underpaid?

Is anyone involved with F1 underpaid? I dont think so.

kmsport · 25 May 2006, 10:22 (Ref:1618520)

is money the be all and end all of everything?

**Bononi** · 25 May 2006, 11:27 (Ref:1618567)

Is that a rhetoric question or a financial statement ???

Greenback · 25 May 2006, 16:53 (Ref:1618781)

Money is definitely not everything, but in today's f1 everything is about glam and money. We are not suggesting that pat should as for the sky, but if an engineer who is working for a team that is struggling in mid field is being paid 10m a year, as a engineer responsible for both WDC and WCC, you should at least get half of what the others is getting. According to F1 racing, Pat is paid a basic of 900K and with the championship bonus it is about 2.2m. For a lay man thats alot of money, but in f1 that is just a token.

Passion is good for the team, but at the same time you also dont want ppl to think that you are a sucker.

Dutton · 25 May 2006, 17:52 (Ref:1618821)

Well, in the case of the likes of star F1 people, then they aren't really underpaid I guess. Unlike your average person, they really can, ultimately, just not accept the terms and walk away. They are so totally minted that they no longer rely on their wage to survive.

I am sure, were Pat to want to leave, then he would try and get as much out of prospective employers are they were willing to give him: in the same he I am sure he tries to get as much out of Renault as they are willing to pay him.

However, this does not mean he would leave just because x-team offers him more. He has been with the team, in its various forms, through the good and the and the bad, and finally it has all come up roses again.

I think it is entirely likely he is very happy where he is, and looks forward to future years with the team, and I guess he will have to survive with the poverty-stricken lifestyle that his Renault wage will force him to live with.

Perhaps, relative to others in his position, in financially solid teams, he is "under payed". However, this pay remains, in absolute terms, at worst in the bracket of the top 1% of the world's population.

Actually, I would venture it is smaller than that, as I doubt there are that many multi-millionaires out there (on the basis of a 6 500 000 000 population of Earth, and say 1% are multi-millionaires, then that means there are 65 000 000 multi-millionaires out there). Perhaps there are that many, but I would reckon that is way over (something more like 0.1%?). I wouldn't claim to know the precise answer.

The point is that Pat has no reason to make his choices on the basis of salary, but he will of course try and get what he can once he decides where wants to work.

Dutton · 25 May 2006, 18:04 (Ref:1618830)

I apologise for making this a new post, but arrggghhhness of a cookie time-out made the critical difference regarding getting the edit in within 10 minutes.

*****

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenback

Money is definitely not everything, but in today's f1 everything is about glam and money.

So, let "F1's everything" be "f", glam be "g", and money "m".

f = g + m
g + m = f
m = f - g

So, in today's F1, money is as important as what is left of F1 when you take away the glam.

You can't argue with Maths,

.

**Bononi** · 26 May 2006, 01:23 (Ref:1619135)

Wow, that was a lesson in F1 Maths

Peter Nightingale · 26 May 2006, 01:38 (Ref:1619139)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Hans

This is a very good point.

We musn't assume that Pat values money above all else. He's been with the team since their Toleman days, so he has an emotional attachment, and clearly loves his job.

I totally agree, i have been in the same emotional situation my self with an Australian F2 team in the early 1970's......

Greenback · 26 May 2006, 04:01 (Ref:1619178)

If it is not about glam, when what do you call those Superman motorhome and diamond studded steering wheels & cars?

Peter Nightingale · 26 May 2006, 04:27 (Ref:1619184)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmsport

is money the be all and end all of everything?

Never a truer word SPOKEN...........

littlefarny · 26 May 2006, 08:17 (Ref:1619278)

Money isn't the be all and end all, and since Renault have commited themselves to F1, I'm sure noone will really want to jump ship from a championship winning team.

However, I'm sure that Alonso left for monetary reasons, and Renault do underpay their staff. That be my opinion.

Noone here knows what he'll do, so it's all just speculation anyway.

However, F1 is more about the money for teams like Renault and Honda.
OK sure, some of the technical expertise can be translated to the road cars, but not alot for the budget car companies.

They make it work, but a team with a W/C under their belt, need to do more the next year, more work, need to pay your people more money.

I'm not saying Pat is demanding more money, and I have no idea how much he earns, but I'm pretty sure it isn't the same as other engineers who have done the same as him.
So what I'm saying is Renault should pay him more, perhaps out of the salary they are planning on saving after Mr. Alonso's departure?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
are drivers paid too much,not enough or just right?	Pro Racer	Australasian Touring Cars.	33	2 Mar 2006 09:17
Do we want to be paid?	Stuart Hill	Marshals Forum	138	4 Feb 2005 09:52
official's , to be paid or not?	RENAULT RS24	Australasian Touring Cars.	9	7 Jun 2004 10:00
Could drivers be paid	OLD DOG	Club Level Single Seaters	41	25 Jan 2004 18:17
Has FOX and NBC paid too much?	MR_MRee	NASCAR & Stock Car Racing	1	13 Feb 2000 01:24