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27 Mar 2010, 15:47 (Ref:2661064) | #26 | ||
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Forget the sound. The world moves on, and the most important thing is speed! I'd love to see all electric racing cars!
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27 Mar 2010, 15:54 (Ref:2661066) | #27 | |||
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Agree absolutely that it would be fascinating to see a proper all electric race car - much as Yves Courage was talking about running, and personally can't wait to see one. |
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28 Mar 2010, 00:22 (Ref:2661315) | #28 | |||
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ACO 2010 regs GT1/GT2 and LMP: 5.8.4. - Noise level: The sound emitted from each car will must not exceed 112 dbA during the qualifying practices and the race. The measurement will be made at 15 meters from the edge of the track. Ecxatly same in 2009, in 2007/2008 limit was 113. FIA GT 2010 regs: Catalytic exhausts are not mandatory. It is recommended that the noise level as defined in Articles 257.5.6.3 of the 2010 Appendix J and 258.5.7.2 of the 2009 Appendix J be respected. Appendix J: 5.6.3 The noise emitted by the car must not exceed 112 dB(A) during the qualifying practice sessions and the race. The measurement will be carried out 15 metres from the edge of the track. All measures taken to ensure that the maximum noise limits are not exceeded must be permanent in nature, and must not be eliminated by the exhaust gas pressure. In 2007, 2008 and 2009 limit was 113 Quote:
Last edited by Lazy; 28 Mar 2010 at 00:32. |
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28 Mar 2010, 01:33 (Ref:2661339) | #29 | ||
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Is it really any more dangerous than dealing with a crashed petrol car, containing a large amount of highly volatile liquid, which is injected into an extremely hot lump of metal in the presence of a spark initiator?
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28 Mar 2010, 01:51 (Ref:2661342) | #30 | ||
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If the fuel tank isn't ruptured, there's no such problem really. Oil line fires tend to burn themselves out pretty quickly. If a fire does break out, an extinguisher can be used at some distance from the car.
With an all electric system, it may be okay to touch the car, or parts of the car, or effectively none of the car. Of course, there isn't really a good way to tell just which of those scenarios it is. I know F1 had a light on the KERS-equipped cars that was supposed to tell marshals if it's okay to touch the car, but sensors can give false readings, especially after a hard impact. Also, what do you do if the driver perhaps needs outside assistance to be extracted, but the warning light is telling you that you can't safely do that? |
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28 Mar 2010, 07:43 (Ref:2661431) | #31 | |||
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Fuel cells- pipe dream. Electric cars- down south maybe they can sucker some people to be slaves to an electrical outlet, but up here where it can hit sub-zero Fahrenheit for up to a week straight and be a normal night time temperature for two months easily, while automobiles must be able navigate a foot or more snow till plows get all road cleared, electric vehicles would be something out of a Benny Hill skit. The internal combustion engine isn't going away in your lifetime. |
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28 Mar 2010, 09:06 (Ref:2661549) | #32 | ||
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I expect Lord Dryson also owns a battery company.
But he does have a point, Motorsport will have to evolve to survive. i dont see wholly electirc cars being the norm for a long while yet either on the road or track, but that is the direction sponsors and car makers want to go, then the sport will follow the money. Its all about the money and there is a finate amount of oil available, again along way to go before its a problem, that does not mean we should not look to the future now. |
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Some people will tell you that slow is good - and it may be, on some days - but I am here to tell you that fast is better. H S Thompson 1937 - 2005 |
28 Mar 2010, 09:58 (Ref:2661603) | #33 | ||
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Drayson is IIRC Technology Minister over here, so is talking up his department, as any good Minister should...
I don't see he's wrong, personally. As the marshal's enquiry earlier? There may be some worrying incidents early on, as the unforeseen happens, but things will swiftly reach the same level as today, where crashes have happened in real life, and we know what can happen, in real life. Yes, early doors, I suspect there may be 'interesting times', but it will improve. |
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Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"... |
28 Mar 2010, 15:41 (Ref:2661831) | #34 | ||
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Even if I was fortunate enough to afford a high end sportscar, I'd be looking at low(er) emission sportscars that could do 20-30mpg+, rather gas guzzlers. |
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28 Mar 2010, 15:50 (Ref:2661834) | #35 | ||
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The Right Honourable Lord Paul Drayson is The Minsiter of Science and Innovation as well as jointly being a Minister of Defence.
So a reliable electric/hybrid would be a goal for both of those positions, I would think. L.P. |
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28 Mar 2010, 16:22 (Ref:2661870) | #36 | ||
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Most of them don't seem to do that many miles per annum either. The likelihood is that the life style you would be leading would make fuel cost considerations for your sports car(s) a non-issue. |
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28 Mar 2010, 16:44 (Ref:2661891) | #37 | ||
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Slightly O/T, but it was reported one of the reasons the new Mclaren MP4 is so reserved, style wise, is due to customers becoming self conscious about what they drive, I believe that will increasingly apply to a cars environmental credentials. |
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28 Mar 2010, 16:52 (Ref:2661898) | #38 | ||
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This electric talk makes me think of Geoffrey Goddard's story in Road and Track back in 1966 or so about the tiny little slot car with the tiny little gas engine that was out-running the Ferraris and Fords. Seems like old Geoffrey was years ahead of his time.
DK |
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28 Mar 2010, 17:24 (Ref:2661921) | #39 | ||
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All this talk about Electric cars in the future just ain't going to happen, there's simply not enough Lithium supplies in the world to power them all.
http://scitizen.com/future-energies/...a-14-2040.html Unless they come up with some other way of storing the electrical energy on a mass market scale, then Electrically powered cars are a complete dead end. If I was a betting man then my money would be on a massive expansion of Algae based fuels to power future vehicles. They produce more fuel than regular Bio-mass crops and also extract Co2 from the atmosphere whilst doing it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel Plus we still get to have loud Racing cars! |
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28 Mar 2010, 20:16 (Ref:2662138) | #40 | ||
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electric cars always confuse me is it really better to fire up a huge powerstation either on fossil fuels or nuclear power compared to using petrol or diesel.
battery technology even massivly better than 10yrs ago still is pretty shocking for use in a car. a tesla barely does 150miles. and thats not even with heaters on and lights etc etc. also batteries have a downward scale of life, everyone knows the more times u use ur ipod or phone laptop after a while your battery life just aint as good as it once was. i think battery powered cars are a massive white elephant |
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28 Mar 2010, 21:18 (Ref:2662188) | #41 | ||||
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We may see specific applications - city vehicles and so on, just like electric milkfloats worked well for the task required of them. Of course there was also the trolley bus solution which, dare I say it, by requiring vehciles to run sequentially also offer options for controlling traffic movement on the public roads. Not necessarily a nice thought. Under road induction systems might also work- with a secondary benefit of providing infrastructure for heating and de-icing of roads in winter. Could maybe also be part of the national grid infrastructure. They might fry a few bejewelled or reconstructed pedestrians though. |
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30 Mar 2010, 13:41 (Ref:2663501) | #42 | |||
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30 Mar 2010, 14:14 (Ref:2663523) | #43 | |||
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Bob - I agree with some of your comments, yes the IC engine is here for the long term, but fuel cells are certainly not a pipe dream, I currently work in the hybrid design and development industry and let me assure you that fuel cells will soon be in the market place weather you like them or not. Some good discussions going on here! basically the industry has realised the mild and full hybrids are bad value for money, this is principally linked to the poor (big!) battery technology in the marketplace, there are now several companies that are pushing the boundaries of Lithium Ion and Ultra Caps in terms of size versus power storage, as a result their size (and cost) is set to shrink by quite a big margin. This will come to fruition in the next 2-3 years in a proof of concept form, then that will make a race derivative look more attractive (size wise). |
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30 Mar 2010, 14:20 (Ref:2663526) | #44 | ||
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TBH. Li=Ion is a dead end for cars. As said elsewhere, not enough sources for materials, so OK for cameras, phones, laptops etc. but forget transport. It's not just Lithium, either. One particular element is found 90% within China, and there is only enough for forecast DOMESTIC battery demand, never mind global...
Other power sources required, folks. |
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Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"... |
30 Mar 2010, 14:22 (Ref:2663530) | #45 | ||
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I also forgot to mention - you are all talking about fuel cells like they are just a storage device for electricity which is just not the case........there are also liquid and gas hydrogen versions.......the latter (gas) is very attractive for your average punter, all you need is a wind source, you run some electrodes from a wind generator through water, compress the hydrogen gas into cylinders, then transfer the gas to your vehicle which then purges the gas through a fuel cell (not an IC engine (very inefficient!)) which generates electricity and powers the main drive motor........this is already very popular and available technology in europe, with big government funding in place.......believe me!.......potentially you are looking at zero fuel cost.
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30 Mar 2010, 14:24 (Ref:2663531) | #46 | |||
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30 Mar 2010, 18:11 (Ref:2663657) | #47 | |||
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30 Mar 2010, 18:35 (Ref:2663676) | #48 | |||
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L.P. |
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30 Mar 2010, 20:54 (Ref:2663805) | #49 | |||
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Save the Lithium for things that fit in our pockets, not for 1000kg+ things that run on wheels. |
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30 Mar 2010, 20:58 (Ref:2663810) | #50 | ||
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Last time I spoke to Ian I got the impression he will accept ANY engine which comes for free or at a subsidize price in order to fit into either of his two radicals.....his ideal scenario is a manufacturer backed LMP1 or LMP2 engine......dont laugh, the bloke is seriously connected and I will help him in any way possible with my list of contacts and customers, which is not insignificant...... but for sure, he has realized the V10 diesel is 200Kg over weight which caused the car to handle like a boat........my last advice was to get the car running reliably, possibly to consider running one of the old Nissan V6 3.4Litre LMP675 normally aspirated engines from either AER or IES, not the ideal solution but it will be a good weight and power and bullet proof reliability........either way you can bet your balls he will be back soon.
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