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Old 7 Oct 2018, 08:37 (Ref:3855109)   #1
Langers
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Langers should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Duty of care

Enough is enough with teams leaving drivers out in cars when they are clearly in no fit state to do so. Even though the commentators didn’t say anything, it was obvious that Reynolds had a speed problem and was losing rapidly to Lowndes. This should have prompted questions. Then when he revealed the leg cramps and was unable to make a clear decision / give clear direction as to whether to stay in the car or not, it was again clear that the team should have put in Youlden. Even without the benefit of hindsight, it would have been the safer move.

Instead, they left a driver out too long, he made a mistake in the pit stop and a top 5 result turned to top 15.

Someone also needs to take responsibility for what was clearly too hectic a schedule during the week for Reynolds to handle. Right at the very start of the race when he said he was running on 5 hours sleep or less for successive days, alarm bells immediately rang for me. You just can’t perform at your best on such a sleep deficit.

This is not the first time a team has failed to act. I remember Slade a few years ago being absolutely cooked.

Was also concerned to hear remarks from Lowndes and Premat that neither the 17 or 888 were running driver cooking gear, presumably to save weight.

The size of the drink bottles in the cars is pathetic compared to the amount of fluid drivers would lose in 3 stints. Again, putting car performance ahead of driver health and safety.

Something has to change. Drivers can’t make the right decisions themselves when they are completely cooked.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 08:54 (Ref:3855113)   #2
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Enough is enough with teams leaving drivers out in cars when they are clearly in no fit state to do so. Even though the commentators didn’t say anything, it was obvious that Reynolds had a speed problem and was losing rapidly to Lowndes. This should have prompted questions. Then when he revealed the leg cramps and was unable to make a clear decision / give clear direction as to whether to stay in the car or not, it was again clear that the team should have put in Youlden. Even without the benefit of hindsight, it would have been the safer move.
Forget anything else about the commitments and so on, purely looking at the race management, the minute he said he wasn't sure they should have pulled him immediately from the car.

I am not a sports scientist but from my long distance running experience, you cannot get glucose or electrolytes into muscles in less than about 30 minutes, I am gobsmacked that the team expert let him stay in the car in that condition.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:02 (Ref:3855117)   #3
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Here's Betty's take:

“David’s kicking himself. He knows what he did was wrong.

“A champion’s red mist came over him. He thought he could get home because he wanted so badly to win again.”

https://www.news.com.au/sport/motors...998c4dc22c9a7f
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:08 (Ref:3855122)   #4
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Kingair should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridKingair should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I thought the team manager would have made the call.

They were like old moles at a christening, FFS the car was going to be in the wall if Dave kept going.

Mark Skaife called it as fatigue, and what if Dave collapsed at the wheel, passed out down Conrod straight or starting vomiting and choked on it?
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:13 (Ref:3855124)   #5
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mtpanorama should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Maybe it is time to look at allowable driving time.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:22 (Ref:3855127)   #6
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The interesting thing was sleep deprivation being mentioned.

It's not always easy to sleep in a different place to your usual abode, then to have that combined with nervous anticipation and performance expectations.
Surely other drivers would have experienced similar, yet this has never really been brought up before.

The team should have perhaps been working on resolving that issue much earlier in the week.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:23 (Ref:3855128)   #7
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Maybe it is time to look at allowable driving time.


There’s been regulations on that for years (2.5 hours max).

I must say that as it was happening I felt that the team should be pulling him in. There was a perfectly fit co-driver in the garage who could have jumped in. It would probably have cost the race but they all work together all year & the team guys must have known by his voice, ramblings & cramping that he was in real trouble.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:26 (Ref:3855129)   #8
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Good point Forda, perhaps the teams need to manage fatigue by cutting down on the PR stuff.

Lack of sleep over a few days is the equivalent of driving with a blood alcohol level of .08.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3855131)   #9
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There’s been regulations on that for years (2.5 hours max).

I must say that as it was happening I felt that the team should be pulling him in. There was a perfectly fit co-driver in the garage who could have jumped in. It would probably have cost the race but they all work together all year & the team guys must have known by his voice, ramblings & cramping that he was in real trouble.
I know that there is a maximum.
Maybe I should have phrased it better and said they need to look at changing the allowable time limit .
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:37 (Ref:3855133)   #10
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I can't see the value of triple stinting the main driver at the end. There was always risk that a driver would fatigue.
The whole concept of getting the co-drivers laps done as early as possible is ridiculous.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 09:41 (Ref:3855136)   #11
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I know that there is a maximum.
Maybe I should have phrased it better and said they need to look at changing the allowable time limit .
Quite possibly although in this case (as far as we know) the other drivers were all feeling it but coped OK.

I suspect that Davey's issues stemmed from a big week and he just started the race with not enough in his personal tank. I'm not going to beat the team up over it (fatigue does tend to go hand in hand with motor sport) but no doubt the team and Davey will have learned some lessons from this week.

Good starting point would be to take medical advice as to why he wasn't sleeping well and come up with a solution.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 13:22 (Ref:3855195)   #12
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Razor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The main issue was that Deadpool (an in-joke between Dave Reynolds and myself) was practically not himself all week. (had trouble sleeping, said all week that he felt off song, etc) Plus the team should have over-ruled Reynolds' wanting to stay in the car and put Youlden in the car during the scheduled pitstop. (It was clear in the in-car footage that Deadpool was stuffed, he was constantly drooping/shutting his eyelids, looked pale as and when he jumped out of the car, not only his legs were cramped, his hands were clawed with severe cramp)

Also, props for Greg Murphy consoling Reynolds. Like him or not, that was a great thing he did, unlike the bunch of photographers that stuck their cameras practically in Reynolds' face. That really annoyed me. (and the team who practically used themselves as human shields to give Deadpool some privacy)
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 18:19 (Ref:3855269)   #13
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Langers should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think he should have gone straight out the back into the truck onto a drip and have some privacy. He wasn’t in a state to be in front of a camera (TV or otherwise)
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 23:21 (Ref:3855304)   #14
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Imo the root issue in this is Reynolds anxiety issue which has become quite clear now. A pack of sleep as a result of anxiety has a far greater impact on someone's mental and physical performance than simply reduced sleep due to a later finish or eaely start. Hopefully he can work in that area but there's the fear now that it'll exacerbate after this weekend.
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Old 7 Oct 2018, 23:46 (Ref:3855305)   #15
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The main issue was that Deadpool (an in-joke between Dave Reynolds and myself) was practically not himself all week. (had trouble sleeping, said all week that he felt off song, etc) Plus the team should have over-ruled Reynolds' wanting to stay in the car and put Youlden in the car during the scheduled pitstop. (It was clear in the in-car footage that Deadpool was stuffed, he was constantly drooping/shutting his eyelids, looked pale as and when he jumped out of the car, not only his legs were cramped, his hands were clawed with severe cramp)
Makes the decision to triple-stint him in such a fast race very questionable. Youlden didn't put a foot wrong.

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Also, props for Greg Murphy consoling Reynolds. Like him or not, that was a great thing he did, unlike the bunch of photographers that stuck their cameras practically in Reynolds' face. That really annoyed me. (and the team who practically used themselves as human shields to give Deadpool some privacy)
Man absolutely, those photographers really ****ed me off.

Murph was great. Poor Dave looked absolutely shell shocked.

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Imo the root issue in this is Reynolds anxiety issue which has become quite clear now. A pack of sleep as a result of anxiety has a far greater impact on someone's mental and physical performance than simply reduced sleep due to a later finish or eaely start. Hopefully he can work in that area but there's the fear now that it'll exacerbate after this weekend.
As a sufferer myself I really feel the pain and it is a serious issue that can affect you physically very badly.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 00:24 (Ref:3855308)   #16
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Denosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridDenosaur should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Team should have made a call and bought him in, no choice. He wasn't talking sense, so they should have said come in. Could have had a better chance.

But that is what this race is known for, the shear heartbreak it causes when it doesn't go right. Think about everything that we have seen over the years that has happened and costed victory to those who looked to have it in the bag. It ain't over till it is over.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 00:55 (Ref:3855309)   #17
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The catagory has a world class doctor on hand who could've made a clear, enforceable decision on it.

Time to adjust the rules. This isn't the first time a driver's health has been affected during the race.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 03:18 (Ref:3855329)   #18
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Who was the BJR driver in last year's race that begged to be allowed out of the car due to a busted cool suit or drink bottle before collapsing onto pit lane?
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 04:02 (Ref:3855337)   #19
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Murph was great. Poor Dave looked absolutely shell shocked.
I know the directors would have been pushing him to do it, but I really don't think that it was right to interview David until he had recovered. He was clearly in no fit state to be interviewed.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 04:07 (Ref:3855341)   #20
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The catagory has a world class doctor on hand who could've made a clear, enforceable decision on it.

Time to adjust the rules. This isn't the first time a driver's health has been affected during the race.
You don't really want someone outside the team making the decision as it opens things up to accusations of bias. Imagine if it was a championship changing decision from Dr Carl.

That said, there has to be a better way. Teams need to take accountability, not drivers. Perhaps internal body temperature monitoring with swallowed capsules, or tracking of driver eye movements (as they have in road cars), heart rate telemetry, basic questions to test cognitive function (if they can’t tell you the square root of 81, they’re kicked out of the car) etc.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 04:08 (Ref:3855342)   #21
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Imo the root issue in this is Reynolds anxiety issue which has become quite clear now. A pack of sleep as a result of anxiety has a far greater impact on someone's mental and physical performance than simply reduced sleep due to a later finish or eaely start. Hopefully he can work in that area but there's the fear now that it'll exacerbate after this weekend.
Yes agree. As reigning champion his media workload probably wouldn’t have been worse than Lowndes’ for the weekend, but one was OK and the other was not.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 04:10 (Ref:3855343)   #22
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Who was the BJR driver in last year's race that begged to be allowed out of the car due to a busted cool suit or drink bottle before collapsing onto pit lane?
Slade. It was horrific.

https://www.supercars.com/news/champ...eating-horror/
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 04:14 (Ref:3855344)   #23
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Couple points:

Watching the broadcast showed Reynolds asleep sometime after his first stint. He doubtless needed the sleep but also would have need to rehydrate at the same time. Maybe this fed into his cramping late in the day?

Whomever was advising the team saying he needed to have a big drink with the expectation that it would allow him to recover from the cramps and continue was just plain wrong. You cannot consume enough fluid and electrolytes whilst driving to recover like that.
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 04:47 (Ref:3855347)   #24
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Couple points:

Watching the broadcast showed Reynolds asleep sometime after his first stint. He doubtless needed the sleep but also would have need to rehydrate at the same time. Maybe this fed into his cramping late in the day?

Whomever was advising the team saying he needed to have a big drink with the expectation that it would allow him to recover from the cramps and continue was just plain wrong. You cannot consume enough fluid and electrolytes whilst driving to recover like that.
I think she was a physiotherapist, not a doctor / sports scientist. Where was Dr Carl?
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Old 8 Oct 2018, 05:01 (Ref:3855348)   #25
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I think she was a physiotherapist, not a doctor / sports scientist. Where was Dr Carl?
Well it not rocket science either.

It is easy to be wise after the event but maybe banking a podium by putting the second driver in would have been better than where they ended up.

The drive through they got for the wheel turning during the pitstop in comparison with the penalty # 1 for losing a wheel on the pit straight received was all out of whack. 888 got $5k and 30 points. Drive through would have been worse than that in prize money & points.

It wasn't clear (to me anyway) just how distressed Reynolds was. On speedcafe he says:
“During that race, I got to a point – I kind of remember it now – I thought my screen was foggy, like foggy, but then they did the tear-off and it didn’t get any better, and that’s when I realised my vision was f***ked.
“The vision was diminishing, so I was in a bad state, but I’m too competitive for my own good and I just didn’t want to give up.

Anyone ever heard of someone getting blurry vision in a car like that?
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