'red wall tyres' idea....

[Sodemo]

Could they not just chalk mark each tyre?

"S" for soft, "H" for hard, or is that just too simple?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by The Monster

Could they not just chalk mark each tyre?

"S" for soft, "H" for hard, or is that just too simple?

Nah,keep'em (and us) guessing.Anyway,all the teams know how to use stop-watches don't they.

[BootsOntheSide]

I'd prefer them not being marked - the tactical intrigue would be destroyed by giving it away.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Does anyone know if the tyres will actually have red walls? It'll be really hard to keep up otherwise...

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I hope they don't. If the tyres have significantly different characteristics then we'll be able to work it out.

According to an article i read in F1 Racing, no, they won't have the red walls, plus, if the driver uses inters during a race, he won't have to use both compounds as well.

[JohnSSC]

Well I am confused. Why would the FIA require the supplier provide certain levels of compound so the teams can choose which works best for them and then turn around and make the teams use all of the available compouds anyway? Part of the fun (for me) was the idea that strategies would come in to play so each team would pick a certain compound to suit the chassis, driver, track, pit stop strategy, etc.

Why not have Charlie Whiting just randomly push a button during the race so that a sign would light up saying: "Soft" or "Hard" and then everyone has to pit within 2 laps and change? Of course this whole soft/hard bit would leave the door wide open for gratuitous, Catholic school-boy humor and jokes about "he is doing better now that he is hard than he was when he was soft, don't you agree?" from the commentators...

I find this whole thing idiotic in ChampCar and actually believe that Derek Daly (former F1 bloke and now a commentator for CC on the telly - and a rather excitable fellow at that) is going to one day just start frothing so much about how exciting everything is with all this pushing and passing and hard and soft and redwalls that he is going to drown in his own froth... CC will finally have achieved some good in the world I guess...

Anyway this is F1 - not Gimmicks R Us. Save that for the series' that are on life support and need this kind of stuff to get people to watch.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Well I am confused. Why would the FIA require the supplier provide certain levels of compound so the teams can choose which works best for them and then turn around and make the teams use all of the available compouds anyway? Part of the fun (for me) was the idea that strategies would come in to play so each team would pick a certain compound to suit the chassis, driver, track, pit stop strategy, etc.

Why not have Charlie Whiting just randomly push a button during the race so that a sign would light up saying: "Soft" or "Hard" and then everyone has to pit within 2 laps and change? Of course this whole soft/hard bit would leave the door wide open for gratuitous, Catholic school-boy humor and jokes about "he is doing better now that he is hard than he was when he was soft, don't you agree?" from the commentators...

I find this whole thing idiotic in ChampCar and actually believe that Derek Daly (former F1 bloke and now a commentator for CC on the telly - and a rather excitable fellow at that) is going to one day just start frothing so much about how exciting everything is with all this pushing and passing and hard and soft and redwalls that he is going to drown in his own froth... CC will finally have achieved some good in the world I guess...

Anyway this is F1 - not Gimmicks R Us. Save that for the series' that are on life support and need this kind of stuff to get people to watch.

I wouldnt be so complacant.

A lot of people that I know who used to watch F1 certainly dont any more.

My father who for many years used to be a keen fan of F1 since the 1970s, stopped watching around 1998 simply because the racing had "turned to garbage" - (his words, not mine). He tunes into the odd race, but not many.

Likewise, people that I meet, I mention F1 and the thing they say is "its not like it used to be", "its boring now" etc. Thats the perception the sport has to the (maybe slightly uneducated viewers) which is surely something for concern...

[JeremySmith]

Personally I don't care for the idea of Red Wall tyres..Do we need to know what tyres they are running and when exactly? I hope they drop the idea.

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Anyway this is F1 - not Gimmicks R Us. Save that for the series' that are on life support and need this kind of stuff to get people to watch.

I think it's really as simple as this:

2 cars racing on 2 different compounds should provide greater variation in grip levels between the 2 cars at varying stages of the race. You would imagine there would not be 1 single ideal set-up, but rather a spectrum of ideal set-ups to manage the grip levels of both compounds. Thus, you have a method of distinguishing the cars performance from each other via regulation, and the result should be more to and fro in the racing.

--

one of the best aspects of moto-gp racing has been, and is, the varying degrees to which their tyres come into their sweet spot, so someone who has charged early then has to really struggle to hold on to position, and can dramatically fall off the pace, and vice versa, etc. Someone like Rossi seemed to have more of a mechanical sensitivity, and so mastered this better than most other riders.

This is a skill i would like to see more of in F1. Theoretically, it allows more scope for a driver of a midfield car who maximise the use of their tyres to relatively outperform a guy in a front running car.

Similar to Prost, Brock etc etc in past years, this was a skill which was highly important in a racing driver, whereas now it seems to be taken for granted, so much so that drivers say "oh i had a problem with my second set of tyres" pointing at it like it's a manufacturing fault rather than driver mis-mastery.

That's maybe a bit of a rant, but re-introducing this, and other, driver skills in F1 is long overdue. Quite simply, there's increasingly little to distinguish the drivers in the modern F1 car.

Whether they paint the side walls or not is a gimmick, but regulations that bring back proper racing skills are not IMO....

[JohnSSC]

But how can you say that "skill" is lacking when we just came out of a period when we had two manufacturers building multiple compounds for each race? Did not the drivers have to participate in the tire choice?

Even accepting your point rocketracer (and it is one with merit), why do we need "red tires" or "green tires" or whatever to add interest. The whole hard vs soft compound is good enough for me and perhaps our good commentators could tell us during the race more consistently who is matching up with whom on what compound.

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

Thus, you have a method of distinguishing the cars performance from each other via regulation

How is a set of degrading tyres on a car distinguishing the cars performance again racer? Can you run that by me again?

We could go on forever on this point, in fact I think we already have, but for my money, I want to see the cars run the way they were designed to run, and judge the drivers on that basis. The suggestion that Ferrari is redesigning the car to suit Kimi's driving style is perfect from my POV. Aero regs and electronic driver aids? Please. But if your tyres are failing and the car is not performing on track as designed, the team had better pick their spot and come in and change them.

I thought a control tyre was just that. Shouldn't we at least give it a season (or a race even) before we start tweeking it? If the teams and the FIA are so afraid that Ferrari will simply run away with it again this year then, go Kimi.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Well I am confused. Why would the FIA require the supplier provide certain levels of compound so the teams can choose which works best for them and then turn around and make the teams use all of the available compouds anyway?

As far as i'm aware, the 2 compound's of tyre's was Bridgestones idea. (according to F1 Racing mag), the reason for it is simple, Bridgestone is now the only tyre manufacturer, having 2 compounds keeps the commentators talking about their product. Clever really

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

But how can you say that "skill" is lacking when we just came out of a period when we had two manufacturers building multiple compounds for each race? Did not the drivers have to participate in the tire choice?

Well, the manufactures only had two compounds for each weekend, and the driver had to choose one compound for both qualifying and race.

I personally don't care about the red tyre walls. I'm more concerned about the consequences of the mandatory compound change.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Did not the drivers have to participate in the tire choice?

Yes they did.Often knowing in advance that whichever tyre they chose,it would be no match for the opposition.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

I'm more concerned about the consequences of the mandatory compound change.

?

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

?

What do you mean with that?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Yes they did.Often knowing in advance that whichever tyre they chose,it would be no match for the opposition.

Untrue. They often chose a tyre not having a clue how it would fare on raceday compared to the opposition. The swings and roundabouts of the tyre war in 2006 was fascinating.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

What do you mean with that?

In a lazy way he meant what you have just said, "What do you mean with that?". i.e. can you expand what concern there is with a mandatory compound change.

[Last2LiftOff]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

The swings and roundabouts of the tyre war in 2006 was fascinating.

Why particularly Knowles? All the different variables? The competition? Curious, because for me when one of the 2 manufacturers got it all wrong, like to the tune of a couple of seconds a lap, and esp. if there was nothing they could do until the next race, it really lost its luster.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Untrue. They often chose a tyre not having a clue how it would fare on raceday compared to the opposition.

They generally had an idea on Friday or Saturday how things were looking on the tyre front.This last season was closer than most with regards to tyres however.

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

The swings and roundabouts of the tyre war in 2006 was fascinating.

In mixed conditions it certainly was.

However,for my liking,it was too much of the tail wagging the dog.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

What do you mean with that?

Err...what Adam said.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Last2LiftOff

Why particularly Knowles? All the different variables? The competition? Curious, because for me when one of the 2 manufacturers got it all wrong, like to the tune of a couple of seconds a lap, and esp. if there was nothing they could do until the next race, it really lost its luster.

It was weekends like Japan where the advantage seemed to ebb and flow. Michelin had Friday to themselves, Bridgestone crushed the opposition in qualifying and, suddenly and unexpectedly, raceday saw the tyres fairly evenly matched, perhaps Michelin slightly ahead.

You could never quite predict it over the year.

OK, there is always the danger that a tyre manufacturer can have a ridiculous advantage, but this isn't always such a problem.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

It was weekends like Japan where the advantage seemed to ebb and flow. Michelin had Friday to themselves, Bridgestone crushed the opposition in qualifying and, suddenly and unexpectedly, raceday saw the tyres fairly evenly matched, perhaps Michelin slightly ahead.

And then came Brazil,where Bridgestone had an easy 1 to 2 second per lap advantage pretty much all weekend (It was damage limitation mode in the Renault camp).Massa never looked back.Michael,had it not been for the puncture,would have some how gone on to win.
As it was we witnessed some good overtaking courtesy of Bridgestones superior tyres,they made Schumi look good.Toyota and Super Aguri were also quick on the same tyres.

Had it not been for Schumi's puncture,that may have been a very dull race.

[Knowlesy]

Yes, as with anything, it can have downsides. But the plus points outweigh them quite substantially. Please watch some races from 1999 and 2000 and compare them to other years, as I have had the misfortune to do since converting my races to DVD.

But anyways, we are wandering away from the red wall tyres here, which I still feel would be a pointless gimmick which would be cancelled out by all the teams finding the optimum tyre at all times anyways.

[JeremySmith]

Good..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56370

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Good..

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56370

Posted that a while ago,but yes,it is good.

It's best to keep the strategy as secret as possible IMO.And then watch it unravell during the race.