WTCR 2022

[thetool]

Originally Posted by GusGasfuss

You always have to see, that drivers from WTCR are paid professionals. I don't see any good chance, to let them race against private teams with drivers, who always search for budget to race...

There's maybe 2 or 3 actual paid drives in the WTCR. The rest are there because they or their sponsors bring money. Even successful drivers like Tom Coronel and Norbert Michelisz.

[Rubio]

No doubt that Eurosport Events is doing a very poor job in terms of promoting WTCR (we don't even know how many rounds are left in the series and it is not strict Covid like in 2020), however Cyan's decision makes me think that there could be other reasons for the withdrawal (or it has been mooted previously and the tyres just gave Geely an excellent opportunity)

Anyway, they need to sort it out.

Probably the only hope to secure at least partial health of the championship is to go hybrid with HTCR in 2023. Let's see

Actually such a shame to see all this madness

[porsche962fan]

can someone just give it the mercy shot already to put it out of its misery ?

WTCC / WTCR will never be again as the awesome 2004-2007 period

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by thetool

There's maybe 2 or 3 actual paid drives in the WTCR. The rest are there because they or their sponsors bring money. Even successful drivers like Tom Coronel and Norbert Michelisz.

Hm, can't believe, that Cyan drivers are paid by sponsors...


Also Guerreri/Girolami might be paid by manufacturer.


But maybe i am wrong.


The story of touring cars was always a story about manufacturers, who think the were treated bad or didn't get the compensation, they want.

So every race format/series might have this problem, except you take silhouettes on same chassis/engine...

[GusGasfuss]

Originally Posted by Rubio

No doubt that Eurosport Events is doing a very poor job in terms of promoting WTCR (we don't even know how many rounds are left in the series and it is not strict Covid like in 2020), however Cyan's decision makes me think that there could be other reasons for the withdrawal (or it has been mooted previously and the tyres just gave Geely an excellent opportunity)

Anyway, they need to sort it out.

Probably the only hope to secure at least partial health of the championship is to go hybrid with HTCR in 2023. Let's see

Actually such a shame to see all this madness

Its really a shame, that Eurosport seems to have no interest in it now.


I planned to visit Race of Alsace, as it is not far from me. Today i saw time schedule and this is ridiculous. Except of WTCR and some short demo runs of F1 car, Bugatti etc. there is: nothing. No support series, no other races!!!!!

I think i will take VIP package for 200 Euros and see....nothing...12 cars on track.
And i believe this track can be entertaining, with a nice grid...

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by Rubio

No doubt that Eurosport Events is doing a very poor job in terms of promoting WTCR

The fact that they've just had a race in Italy, the country with the strongest TCR series in Europe at the moment, and didn't manage to attract a single wildcard entry, says a lot.

[Sodemo]

I don’t really know why the WTCC / WTCR seem to self destruct every few years, I don’t really know where the organisers are going wrong perhaps someone can enlighten us?

[pimmy]

The core issue is society's acceptance of stupidity. So stupid people end up in positions to make decisions and, therefore, you have a number of racing series around the world being run like absolute clown shows.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by pimmy

The core issue is society's acceptance of stupidity. So stupid people end up in positions to make decisions and, therefore, you have a number of racing series around the world being run like absolute clown shows.

I can understand the comments being made in relation to WTCR.
Which other series are in the number?

[pimmy]

NASCAR's series, all GT series which utilise fake classes to dilute the competition, F1... far too many.

[Sodemo]

Anyone care to enlighten me with specifics of why WTCR organisers are a clown act? Genuine question as I’ve only caught maybe a few TCR races in the last few years.

[tux]

Do we need a world touring car championship?

You do have to ask about the promotion/organisation though. Presumably the Electric TCR thing is run by the same people as WTCR? That series gets very few views on Youtube compared to other series. Although they've increased more this year

Anyway, for me personally when TCR first came about i thought it was great, cars that looked more like "street cars", a huge variety of cars, cars that in theory could be run like the GT3/GT4 model of buy a car and go and race it in many other championships. Its done this but the races that i see tend to be pretty boring and now the series is dominated by Hyundai and Audis.

[auroan]

Insecent messing with BoP and success ballast, along with the whole manufacturer teams not being allowed.... but manufacturers ruling interactions from a distance, is whats killing wtcr.

[antnee]

Would manufacturer teams with a budget cap in place be a better solution? The 'world' series should be the absolute cream of the crop, yet it doesn't feel like that. We say that BTCC is one of the best tin-top series, yet how many BTCC drivers aim to step up into the world series?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by auroan

Insecent messing with BoP and success ballast, along with the whole manufacturer teams not being allowed.... but manufacturers ruling interactions from a distance, is whats killing wtcr.

Plus the calendar being full of super narrow or street circuits. Pretty astounding that we don't even know when or where the next round will be, I hope the teams and drivers know.

And the fact it's so difficult to watch.

Oh and I find the whole 'King of WTCR' thing so cringeworthy.

[S griffin]

I don't think the calendar is the problem, it's more because this series is for a core audience. We have some good teams and drivers in the series. The problem is it's hard to find.

The series has a lot of good ingredients, but needs to do more

[TR4racer]

Originally Posted by antnee

Would manufacturer teams with a budget cap in place be a better solution? The 'world' series should be the absolute cream of the crop, yet it doesn't feel like that. We say that BTCC is one of the best tin-top series, yet how many BTCC drivers aim to step up into the world series?

Most BTCC drivers do not graduate to WTCR/WTCC as they are mostly not good enough imho.

Even Gordon Shedden had 2 very poor years with Audi in WTCR before returning to BTCC.

[TR4racer]

There is a budget cap of sorts in WTCR. Each manufacturer cannot charge more than a certain amount for the cars, I think it is around €150k but there is no cap on drivers salaries (a lot/most of those driving for manufactures are paid very well). Tyres are limited per race weekend and engine swaps are heavily penalised but everything else is more or less open

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by TR4racer

Most BTCC drivers do not graduate to WTCR/WTCC as they are mostly not good enough imho.

Even Gordon Shedden had 2 very poor years with Audi in WTCR before returning to BTCC.

I think the reality is that most BTCC drivers have no intention of 'graduating' to WTCR/WTCC - not that they are not good enough. Citing Shedden as an example is selecting a single data point to back up the statement.

Of those that did choose to move on to WTCC/WTCR, how many of the following are/were not good enough?

Tom Chilton,
Tom Coronel,
Rob Huff,
Alain Menu,
Yvan Muller,
James Nash,
Andy Priaulx,
Gabriele Tarquini,
James Thompson,
Colin Turkington.

[steve_r]

Just catching up with race 1 shambles. So far:-

12 cars on the grid.

One team withdrawn completely - due to unsafe tyres provided by Goodyear who come up as the title sponser on the Eurosport coverage


Team radio to the race leader telling him to slow down because they don't want to be penalised with extra sucess ballast in the next few races for which they dont know when or where the races will happen

It's soooo bad, I am embarresed for them - and I have not even got to the end of the race 1 yet. Many of the other tracks are hopeless for touring cars.

At least this is a track that they should be able to race at, despite the teams telling the drivers not to.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Team radio to the race leader telling him to slow down because they don't want to be penalised with extra sucess ballast in the next few races for which they dont know when or where the races will happen

I have some sympathy with the calendar situation. They couldn't really do much about sanctions meaning the Russian round was a non-starter, then I don't think anyone expected there to still be Covid related travel restrictions. That's a third of the calendar wiped out in one hit. Admittedly the fact they haven't sorted replacement rounds already is not good.

The success ballast thing dates back several years. Ballast is based on a complicated formula using fastest laps in each session over the weekend. Not surprising really if teams try to game the system by winning at the slowest possible speed.

[pimmy]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I have some sympathy with the calendar situation. They couldn't really do much about sanctions meaning the Russian round was a non-starter, then I don't think anyone expected there to still be Covid related travel restrictions. That's a third of the calendar wiped out in one hit. Admittedly the fact they haven't sorted replacement rounds already is not good.

The success ballast thing dates back several years. Ballast is based on a complicated formula using fastest laps in each session over the weekend. Not surprising really if teams try to game the system by winning at the slowest possible speed.

There is no need for compensation weight when TCR is already a BOP category, it just knocks the BOP out of whack again.

It's ridiculous that we're in the situation where teams get mad at their drivers for qualifying on pole. "You went too fast", what sort of nonsense is that?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by pimmy

There is no need for compensation weight when TCR is already a BOP category, it just knocks the BOP out of whack again.

It's ridiculous that we're in the situation where teams get mad at their drivers for qualifying on pole. "You went too fast", what sort of nonsense is that?

And with the reverse grid based on qualifying results (I think), qualifying 10th is as much a benefit as getting 1st. Even more silly when there's only a dozen cars.

[pimmy]

Yeah, the qualifying format is another silly thing in a lot of TCR series, where everyone from 11th back has their grid position for more than one race decided by only one lap time. I was glad to see the German series move away from that.

[TR4racer]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think the reality is that most BTCC drivers have no intention of 'graduating' to WTCR/WTCC - not that they are not good enough. Citing Shedden as an example is selecting a single data point to back up the statement.

Of those that did choose to move on to WTCC/WTCR, how many of the following are/were not good enough?

Tom Chilton,
Tom Coronel,
Rob Huff,
Alain Menu,
Yvan Muller,
James Nash,
Andy Priaulx,
Gabriele Tarquini,
James Thompson,
Colin Turkington.

Yes, a few good drivers there out of how many BTCC drivers over the last 20 years...a very small percentage made it because, as I said, most are not good enough.