World Rallycross R12 - Franciacorta, Italy

[Hampton Caught]

Good points, well made!

[rx-guru]

How many WRX and GRC drivers are backed by Red Bull? And how many of them all put on 7 or 8 of 10 pictures a Red Bull can under your nose?
If some racers would drink such a lot of energy drinks as they are trying to make us believe they would be diabetics...

[crossfades]

Petter Solberg wants manufacture backing or could drive in a manufacture team next year he told a Swedish local paper

http://nwt.se/sport/motorsport/2015/...r?refresh=true

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by crossfades

Petter Solberg wants manufacture backing or could drive in a manufacture team next year he told a Swedish local paper

http://nwt.se/sport/motorsport/2015/...r?refresh=true

I see both of Solberg's DS3's are up for sale as well; though I guess that could be because he is building a new car for next year rather than because he is switching to a team?

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I see both of Solberg's DS3's are up for sale as well; though I guess that could be because he is building a new car for next year rather than because he is switching to a team?

It could very well be that way but in the article he says he could possibly be driving for a manufacture team

[rx-guru]

My dream would be Petter driving in a two-car team for Toyota, joined by Alexander Wurz.............................................................................................

[chunder]

Sadly guys, you all wanted rallycros on telly.

This is what you have now and it is all backed by diabetics of the world unite, so this is what you have to put up with.

I dont think Hansens driving has been that bad really, Solberg is trying to stay out of trouble and has lost his mojo a bit.

The driving all round is poor from most of them, panels rip aff at the lightest touch and make the cars look like bangers, the tracks are too tight with silly corners.

But as Ed says it is tv calling the shots now not drivers, teams or anyone else, so put up or shut up.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by chunder

Sadly guys, you all wanted rallycros on telly.

Yep, you're quite right with that! I for myself wanted Rallycross on telly, but not Tinseltown Racing.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by chunder

Sadly guys, you all wanted rallycros on telly.

This is what you have now and it is all backed by diabetics of the world unite, so this is what you have to put up with.

As long as the coverage of the race itself is decent - and for the most part I personally believe it is - I can overlook the heavy sponsorship advertising and mid-race cuts to the spotters. I would agree with the comment that we see a lot of Susan Hansen, but then Hansen have been the dominant team in the latter half of the season. In the first half of the season, when Petter was strong, we got lots of shots of Pernilla.

I appreciate that Pernilla was/is "another blonde" for the TV, but I daresay she is more presentable for the cameras than some of the team mechanics! (no offence intended to any of the team mechanics with that statement, as I have nothing but respect for them). Maybe there is a little bit too much focus on the spotters mid-race. I think it's great to see the team behind the driver get some acknowledgement, but the action on the track is what I want to see.

Perhaps I am looking at things with overly optimistic eyes. But, excessive marketing aside, we now have accessible, good quality (in terms of image) race coverage, with accurate on screen information (i.e. lap counter, driver positions etc.) and all with relatively concise commentary. Andrew Coley is a little bit shouty for my taste (and I cannot stand Neil Cole), but Coley does at least seem enthusiastic and they do seem to pair him up with knowledgeable co-commentators. Thus far I've yet to find the commentary off putting enough to have to mute the sound, which is more than I can say for the GRC!

Originally Posted by chunder

I dont think Hansens driving has been that bad really, Solberg is trying to stay out of trouble and has lost his mojo a bit.

The move in Holjes is the only bit of driving that really stands out as bad (or perhaps "overly ambitious") to me. But that was dealt with post race.

Flat out Petter is certainly more entertaining than sensible Petter, but once he has got his last 5 points on the board I hope we see Solberg go all out in Argentina.

[Hampton Caught]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

As long as the coverage of the race itself is decent - and for the most part I personally believe it is - I can overlook the heavy sponsorship advertising and mid-race cuts to the spotters. I would agree with the comment that we see a lot of Susan Hansen, but then Hansen have been the dominant team in the latter half of the season. In the first half of the season, when Petter was strong, we got lots of shots of Pernilla.

I appreciate that Pernilla was/is "another blonde" for the TV, but I daresay she is more presentable for the cameras than some of the team mechanics! (no offence intended to any of the team mechanics with that statement, as I have nothing but respect for them). Maybe there is a little bit too much focus on the spotters mid-race. I think it's great to see the team behind the driver get some acknowledgement, but the action on the track is what I want to see.

Perhaps I am looking at things with overly optimistic eyes. But, excessive marketing aside, we now have accessible, good quality (in terms of image) race coverage, with accurate on screen information (i.e. lap counter, driver positions etc.) and all with relatively concise commentary. Andrew Coley is a little bit shouty for my taste (and I cannot stand Neil Cole), but Coley does at least seem enthusiastic and they do seem to pair him up with knowledgeable co-commentators. Thus far I've yet to find the commentary off putting enough to have to mute the sound, which is more than I can say for the GRC!


The move in Holjes is the only bit of driving that really stands out as bad (or perhaps "overly ambitious") to me. But that was dealt with post race.

Flat out Petter is certainly more entertaining than sensible Petter, but once he has got his last 5 points on the board I hope we see Solberg go all out in Argentina.

Quite agree with your comments, my man! I'm thoroughly enjoying the race coverage and having some 'paddock banter' is interesting too, helps us to get to know how the front-runners tick. Also helps when you bump into them in the paddock!!

I haven't the foggiest what the diabetic reference is about!

Yes, superficially the cars do fall apart easily but they always have done - just watch Rob Gibson in the late 80s/ early 90s in European rounds - and I'm sure that Doran's DS3 is held together more by the wrap they apply than to conventional nuts and bolts, but they are not going to carry around excess weight. The cars are all-out racers and that's the way I and many others like it. There's plenty of other stuff on TV if you don't like it.

Cheers, Steve

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Hampton Caught

I haven't the foggiest what the diabetic reference is about!

I believe it's a reference to the energy drinks that are often seen in drivers hands: a high intake of caffeine is a potential cause for diabetes!

On several occasions during the World Rallycross coverage this year I've seen a can (or drinks holder resembling a can) thrust into the drivers hand before they take to the podium and/or are interviewed. That's not a unique situation to rallycross though: the sponsors have paid their money to the team and they want their brand to be seen on TV. It happens in countless sports and I personally think it's no different to a driver wearing a branded hat or t-shirt.

[Hampton Caught]

Ah! I see! Thanks for explaining.

I must admit I don't really pay much attention to the branding; being diabetic myself, a Monster drink is only ever a last-gasp option to fend off a hypo!

Cheers, Steve

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

How many WRX and GRC drivers are backed by Red Bull? And how many of them all put on 7 or 8 of 10 pictures a Red Bull can under your nose?

OMSE (GRX), Hansen Peugeot, Marklund Volkswagen and RKSRX Audi are sponsored by Red Bull. So that's like a dozen drivers.

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I believe it's a reference to the energy drinks that are often seen in drivers hands: a high intake of caffeine is a potential cause for diabetes!

The sugar is the prob: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...2588c9e2ab.jpg

There is a certain driver of whom one can hardly find photos without an energy drink can in his hands. Strange enough he is not the only driver sponsored by that energy drink producer, but his product placements top them all by far. Shall we all believe that humans can drink nothing else but this sugarwater the whole day? Yep, lots of caffeine in energy drinks is another big prob. So big that in my country the government is thinking over major restrictions about its sale to people under 18 years of age.

[chunder]

We are thinking of doing the same in the UK Ed, it is being touted to have a tax on fizzy drinks and energy drinks with the proceeds going towards helathcare (yeah right). When you think there are teaspoons of sugar in just Coke, Lord knows how much in a can of this garbage.

You can see from here, that some people don't care a damn about what is being pushed or what is happening to the sport. They just care about what is being fed them. That is their perogative. Maybe they are newer fans I don't know.

The coverage now is solely really about the two semi finals and final, so mainly dealing with the biggest teams. Even F1 doesn't do that for goodness sake.

The S1600 and other stuff hardly gets a look in and no coverage anymore despite getting some last year, ERC gets about 2 or 3 minutes, and the rest of it is Coley shouting and worming his way into a race car just about every weekend.

I do like some of what they do. I think the tracks are getting there, some of the locations are OK. And the manufacturer support is currently what is keeping the thing afloat.

But like I have always said, they are just rushing into it too much. You have gone in a year from rich patrons to manufacturer teams. The rich patrons are now outcast.

The thing in their favour is that WRC is dead on its feet, and there are groups of drivers like Solberg, Galli, Stohl, Wilks who people know about, who have links with manufacturers and sponsors and can get into the sport now as they are dumped from WRC, whereas before they would only touch it as a one off like Duval or Loeb.

If WRC starts to get bigger again which it is trying to do, then I fear long term for WRX.

For now IMG have done what any aggressive company does, seen a gap in the market, covered it with lip gloss, fireworks and lunch boxes, stuck it on tv, trampled over anything that was there before and said "Howzat".

[rallycrossnl]

I don't think questioning where the money comes from nowdays is logic. In the old days, loads of money came from tobacco companies promoting their cancer-sticks, some drivers were building their cars from savings of 'questionable origin' (the taxman was unaware of those savings etc..), large soft drink sponsor budgets of very interesting places in the world (think exotic and easternblock) were spend in Europa etc... Never a protest, never questions. These sugar waters, redbull 27gr/250ml btw, are no different. For big sponsorships we need companies whom earn loads and have big profits over those enormous earnings so they can spend lots and lots in advertising their 'illusion'. That in itself (almost always) leeds to ethical problematic funds, I don't see Greenpeace or Oxfam sponsoring in F1 or RX. Remember 'Dianetics' as sponsor in RX and other motorsports..., I never saw protest banners against the scientology cult back then. So yes these sugarwaters are poison, but no less then tobacco and if there was no protest then, why questioning them now?

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

So big that in my country the government is thinking over major restrictions about its sale to people under 18 years of age.

Originally Posted by chunder

We are thinking of doing the same in the UK Ed, it is being touted to have a tax on fizzy drinks and energy drinks with the proceeds going towards helathcare (yeah right). When you think there are teaspoons of sugar in just Coke, Lord knows how much in a can of this garbage.

The amount of sugar in Monster is in the link that Guru posted Chunder. I think its 10 teaspoons in a can of Coke, isn't it? Given the size of a can of Monster the ratio must be similar to that of Coke.

I don't think the age restriction is a bad idea, but taxing the product is a joke. Tax the people with dietary problems, not the product. No one is forcing them to drink it in excess (or feed it to their kids). Moving back onto rallycross though...

Originally Posted by chunder

The thing in their favour is that WRC is dead on its feet, and there are groups of drivers like Solberg, Galli, Stohl, Wilks who people know about, who have links with manufacturers and sponsors and can get into the sport now as they are dumped from WRC, whereas before they would only touch it as a one off like Duval or Loeb.

...I would agree that getting some big names on board has unquestionably helped with the marketing. I don't know the exact timeline for the IMG involvement, I think some of the bigger manufacturers/sponsors were already showing interest before Solberg committed, but I'm sure the interest from other parties has bought more. I do wonder if the spike of interest when rallycross first appeared at X-Games helped attract sponsors as well?

I've said it before but, whether you are a fan or not, I think the World Rallycross Championship has really embraced social media. I'm only an occasional Twitter user so I can't comment on that, but the World RX Facebook page is always active, especially on race weekends.

Originally Posted by rallycrossnl

I don't think questioning where the money comes from nowdays is logic. In the old days, loads of money came from tobacco companies promoting their cancer-sticks

Spot on I would say rallycrossnl. I daresay you could argue that, in moderation, sugary drinks are not harmful: that's certainly not an argument you can apply to cigarettes.

If sugary drinks do become the next product that are banned from advertising, do you think future generations will look back at the liveries of racing cars of this era the same way we look at cars of the 70's, 80's and 90's?

[FIRE]

Does get Solberg backing from Citroen / Citroen Norway?

I thought he did but there's no Citroen on his car or suit. Often no Citroen logo on the bonnet of his DS3.

Would be nice to see him in something totally different, e.g. Toyota or Opel.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Tax the people with dietary problems, not the product. No one is forcing them to drink it in excess (or feed it to their kids).
If sugary drinks do become the next product that are banned from advertising, do you think future generations will look back at the liveries of racing cars of this era the same way we look at cars of the 70's, 80's and 90's?

Hmmm... I remember when people said "What's the problem with cigarette advertising? Young people aren't forced to smoke!"

Then someone figured out how much it was costing the country.. while the manufacturers were laughing all the way to the bank.

If rallycross wants to be a family sport it has got to move away from promoting products that most parents now regard as dodgy. Jamie Oliver, obesity and diabetes are not going to go away.

[rallycrossnl]

I don't know, can anything match the JPS F1 cars? Still my favourite graphic design. There's nothing in todays racecars that sticks to my mind as they did. Whatever product they try to push or how the owner of a brand makes it's money,the reaction to an appealing color-scheme isn't routed in the brain in the same way as leftwing 'look at me being the social superman' birthdayparty after the 3th beer talk is.
Being moralistic about every penny put into rallycross is a bit silly. Totally harmless products could be pushed by sponsorships, say Amazon of some pension fund. Amazon doesn't pay taxes so they keep little babies out of some extra care in NHS hospitals. Pensionfunds don't hesitate to put their money into tobacco, firearms industry or ore-mining which destroys complete countriesides. If you dig deep enough, every penny is 'dirty'. Holier than thou Triodos Bank invests in nuclear weapons through offshore tax-havens...
Softdrinks kill up to 184.000 each year some study says, but I agree with you, it's the people who drink the stuff that do it to themselves, like smokers indeed. But the latter take other peoples lives too, knowingly nowadays.
Comes to mind... there should be a Teflon sponsored car, nothing sticks to that! (be aware to put the budgie in an other room when heating up the car though http://www.budgies.org/info/teflon.html )

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Does get Solberg backing from Citroen / Citroen Norway?

I thought he did but there's no Citroen on his car or suit. Often no Citroen logo on the bonnet of his DS3.

He got backing from Citroen Norway but not much I believe, official Citroen didn't want to put money into RX.

I've heard a theory that Volkswagen could be an option. In a local news paper in Sweden he said he wanted and could hire a chief engineer. During his RX career he has gotten a little bit of help from a chief engineer at Volkswagen, don't remember who though but apparently he was close to Capito in management.

[FIRE]

Another VW Polo...

[Hampton Caught]

... or how about an Up!

Would that make it an Up!! or perhaps an 'Up, Up and Away!'?

Cheers, Steve

[crossfades]

Hopefully Solberg won't be driving with Monster as sponsor next year

[NaBUru38]

How about Renault or Opel?