[Driver] 2019 F1 Silly Season

[Greem]

Go on, I'll bite: play your hand. Give us the reasons, and make them valid and evidence based rather than just "I don't like it".

That way we'll be having an actual discussion instead of endless point scoring.

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

That's all very nice but completely irrelevant. For drivers it's second rate compared to F1. For lots and lots of reasons, none of which you address. Whether it should be or not is a different discussion which you seem to be having with yourself.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

That's all very nice but completely irrelevant. For drivers it's second rate compared to F1. For lots and lots of reasons, none of which you address. Whether it should be or not is a different discussion which you seem to be having with yourself.

You make bold statements as “fact” and then dismiss attempts by others at discussion? There is no solo discussion happening here.

Regardless... the original comment and follow on is off topic for this thread. Start a thread in the more appropriate IndyCar forum and espouse your views on the topic. No need to antagonize cross over fans here who want to discuss F1.

Richard

[GTRMagic]

Given that Mr Ocon is a manufacturer-supported pilot, and that his manufacturer supporter does not currently provide powerplants to IndyCar, is this a moot point anyway?

Disappointing if Mr Ocon prefers to sit on the sidelines rather than driving a Williams, even if it is a lesser horse than a Williams..

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Greem

Go on, I'll bite: play your hand. Give us the reasons, and make them valid and evidence based rather than just "I don't like it".

That way we'll be having an actual discussion instead of endless point scoring.

The evidence is very clear, no single driver who has any shot at an F1 seat even considers IndyCar. For a lot of drivers being a reserve driver in F1 (which basically means standing around in the garage looking pensive with branded headphones on) is preferable to racing in IndyCar. Drivers like Max Chilton drove around aimlessly at the back of the F1 field before considering IndyCar, and only because he was pushed out rather than went willingly. What more needs to be said? For drivers IndyCar is a fallback, a second tier. You don't have to like it but that's how it is, and it's the reason Ocon hasn't even for a second considered it.

The fact that bjohnsonsmee likes tracks without runoff is a complete non-sequitur.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

The evidence is very clear, no single driver who has any shot at an F1 seat even considers IndyCar. For a lot of drivers being a reserve driver is preferable to racing in IndyCar. Drivers like Max Chilton drove around aimlessly at the back of the F1 field before considering IndyCar. What more needs to be said?

The fact that bjohnsonsmee likes tracks without runoff is a complete non-sequitur.

Mario Andretti? Emerson Fittipaldi? Nigel Mansell? Fernando Alonso? Christian Fittipaldi? Mark Blundell? Mauricio Gugelmin? Alex Yoong? Gil De Ferran? Jean Alesi?

No single driver? Maybe they were married...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

The evidence is very clear, no single driver who has any shot at an F1 seat even considers IndyCar. For a lot of drivers being a reserve driver in F1 (which basically means standing around in the garage looking pensive with branded headphones on) is preferable to racing in IndyCar. Drivers like Max Chilton drove around aimlessly at the back of the F1 field before considering IndyCar, and only because he was pushed out rather than went willingly. What more needs to be said? For drivers IndyCar is a fallback, a second tier. You don't have to like it but that's how it is, and it's the reason Ocon hasn't even for a second considered it.

The fact that bjohnsonsmee likes tracks without runoff is a complete non-sequitur.

Want to have a look at the number of reserve drivers who were passed over and never made an F1 grid in recent times?

Scott Dixon earns $12 million dollars a year, probably more than Ocon would earn modeling headsets.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

The evidence is very clear, no single driver who has any shot at an F1 seat even considers IndyCar. For a lot of drivers being a reserve driver in F1 (which basically means standing around in the garage looking pensive with branded headphones on) is preferable to racing in IndyCar. Drivers like Max Chilton drove around aimlessly at the back of the F1 field before considering IndyCar, and only because he was pushed out rather than went willingly. What more needs to be said? For drivers IndyCar is a fallback, a second tier. You don't have to like it but that's how it is, and it's the reason Ocon hasn't even for a second considered it.

The fact that bjohnsonsmee likes tracks without runoff is a complete non-sequitur.

It's nothing to do with what tracks I like, so no non-sequitur. What I said, was merely an observation about the difference between tracks in F1 and IndyCar and there is a very big difference and I don't mean the ovals.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

The evidence is very clear, no single driver who has any shot at an F1 seat even considers IndyCar. For a lot of drivers being a reserve driver in F1 (which basically means standing around in the garage looking pensive with branded headphones on) is preferable to racing in IndyCar. Drivers like Max Chilton drove around aimlessly at the back of the F1 field before considering IndyCar, and only because he was pushed out rather than went willingly. What more needs to be said? For drivers IndyCar is a fallback, a second tier. You don't have to like it but that's how it is, and it's the reason Ocon hasn't even for a second considered it.

The fact that bjohnsonsmee likes tracks without runoff is a complete non-sequitur.

Where exactly does Freddy Allen fit in then?

[steve_r]

I like sunny days, and I also like chocolate. Which is better, which is second rate? Who cares. Leave me alone to enjoy both.

I thought this thread was about F1 not about slagging off something that is not F1.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

No single driver? Maybe they were married...

I love it when people lie about easily proven facts.

[chillibowl]

question then...lets say Ocon does a F1 3rd driver role for 2019.

is he still required to pay for his superlicence based on the flat fee plus the amount for his 2018 F1 world championship points?

or if he goes to another series does he still have to pay?

relatively speaking it may not be a lot of money (or maybe Merc pay for it) but just wondering if there is a personal financial cost to him for sitting out or going to another category?

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mario Andretti? Emerson Fittipaldi? Nigel Mansell? Fernando Alonso? Christian Fittipaldi? Mark Blundell? Mauricio Gugelmin? Alex Yoong? Gil De Ferran? Jean Alesi?

Oh, come now. Andretti is so long ago it’s not a valid comparison. Fittipaldi, E. and Mansell went Stateside after careers in F1. Fittipaldi, Blundell, Gugelmin and Young took the opportunity when any in Formula 1 had dried up (and they hadn’t covered themselves in glory in F1). Alesi came out of retirement. Alonso dipped in for a one-off. And de Ferrari never raced in F1, so I don’t know why you include him. But you’re either naïvely misunderstanding, or being completely disingenuous.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Oh, come now. Andretti is so long ago it’s not a valid comparison. Fittipaldi, E. and Mansell went Stateside after careers in F1. Fittipaldi, Blundell, Gugelmin and Young took the opportunity when any in Formula 1 had dried up (and they hadn’t covered themselves in glory in F1). Alesi came out of retirement. Alonso dipped in for a one-off. And de Ferrari never raced in F1, so I don’t know why you include him. But you’re either naïvely misunderstanding, or being completely disingenuous.

No, usually that's the kind of statement that proves the blatant and frankly utter stupidity of assuming only F1 can have the best drivers. Sorry but F1 has a HUGE history of some of the worst drivers EVER to compete in a "pro" series out there. So F1 fans really should shut their face about having the best drivers in their series, as a whole drivers have been some of the best across multiple disciplines and often it's the reason I hope F1 collapses on its own sheer arrogance. And I feel it's coming cause it just feels like Ferrari has its own ego going and Carey and Co aren't going to back down from taking the big payout away from them.

[Aysedasi]

That wasn't the statement BSF was making. He was criticising the drivers/periods used in GTRM's comparison/example - as I understood it....

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Oh, come now. Andretti is so long ago it’s not a valid comparison. Fittipaldi, E. and Mansell went Stateside after careers in F1. Fittipaldi, Blundell, Gugelmin and Young took the opportunity when any in Formula 1 had dried up (and they hadn’t covered themselves in glory in F1). Alesi came out of retirement. Alonso dipped in for a one-off. And de Ferrari never raced in F1, so I don’t know why you include him. But you’re either naïvely misunderstanding, or being completely disingenuous.

I don't understand either, unless that poster was trying to support my point in which case thanks

[S griffin]

There are plenty of Indycar drivers through the years who have deserved the chance in F1, yet never got it, so it’s good job Indycar is there, so they can continue their single seater career

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

I don't understand either, unless that poster was trying to support my point in which case thanks

Oh I think I did understand it. But I'll leave BSF to tell me if I didn't.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mario Andretti? Emerson Fittipaldi? Nigel Mansell? Fernando Alonso? Christian Fittipaldi? Mark Blundell? Mauricio Gugelmin? Alex Yoong? Gil De Ferran? Jean Alesi?

No single driver? Maybe they were married...

The standout of the modern era is Montoya of course.

Zanardi rescued his career in the States after falling foul of Flavio's management games in F1 only to ruin it by going back to F1 for that unbelievably disastrous year with Williams!

Da Matta showed good signs of promise but fell foul of that ever so successful Toyota Management lol.

Helio Castroneves, De Ferran, Greg Moore, Dixon, are just 4 names who would easily have made the grade in F1 had they been able to get a drive.

[S griffin]

And don’t forget Franchitti too. And Newgarden has the potential to do quite well in F1 given half the chance

[chillibowl]

so much is dependent on what car you get in F1 that its been a difficult road for those that try to cross over. Bourdais being one of the better examples of that imo.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

so much is dependent on what car you get in F1 that its been a difficult road for those that try to cross over. Bourdais being one of the better examples of that imo.

Speaking of whom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHQ-_tvB1d4

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

Speaking of whom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHQ-_tvB1d4

that was a nice move.

i know this is off topic but im surprised we dont see more 'F1 caliber' drivers moving stateside.

maybe Alonso's move will change this but i am sometimes at a loss in understanding the career choices of say someone like Perez for example.

at this point he can stay in F1 but his chances to get a top seat must be slim to none by now so his chances of winning an F1 race, let alone fight for a title, are surely lower than that...

he has money and N.American. i think he is someone who would do well in Indy, have a fan base, have money, could possibly get in on the ownership side, and like many others, such a move would allow him more freedom to race in several other categories at the same time.

as far as pursuing a successful racing career path the opportunities for success in F1 are extremely limited.

like Rossi (a reserve driver who ultimately turned down a full time seat with Manor), why stick around F1 when faced with a reserve or full time ride in with a lower end team?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

that was a nice move.

i know this is off topic but im surprised we dont see more 'F1 caliber' drivers moving stateside.

maybe Alonso's move will change this but i am sometimes at a loss in understanding the career choices of say someone like Perez for example.

at this point he can stay in F1 but his chances to get a top seat must be slim to none by now so his chances of winning an F1 race, let alone fight for a title, are surely lower than that...

he has money and N.American. i think he is someone who would do well in Indy, have a fan base, have money, could possibly get in on the ownership side, and like many others, such a move would allow him more freedom to race in several other categories at the same time.

as far as pursuing a successful racing career path the opportunities for success in F1 are extremely limited.

like Rossi (a reserve driver who ultimately turned down a full time seat with Manor), why stick around F1 when faced with a reserve or full time ride in with a lower end team?

Maybe more drivers will, as new teams join the series.

[loon]

I think that deep down the majority of F1 wannabees do not have a real love of racing, they would rather spend a year standing in the garage just to be part of the circus, if you were a driver what would you rather be doing, standing in the Suzuka pits watching the race on a screen or blasting around Bathurst?

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by loon

I think that deep down the majority of F1 wannabees do not have a real love of racing, they would rather spend a year standing in the garage just to be part of the circus, if you were a driver what would you rather be doing, standing in the Suzuka pits watching the race on a screen or blasting around Bathurst?

Were I to be a driver of the calibre to be considered for F1 and looking for a series to race in,the only series I would look at is Super Formula.The drivers at Bathurst might have fun,but its so far off the radar for all but Zak Brown that you will render yourself invisible.


Indycar might have good racing in it's vacuum,but in the current silly season has anybody talked of Will Stephens,Max Chilton or Alex Rossi filling a vacant seat?They are known in the F1 world and not sought while Scott Dixon is a winner with no obvious place to go.