Grand Am making its move, is it time for ALMS to make its move? - Page 18

Fogelhund · 18 Oct 2010, 08:54 (Ref:2776518)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich07

Slightly OT but what was Pruett doing at the Motorshow?

saying Hi to his wife and kids back home?

Japanese Samurai · 18 Oct 2010, 09:52 (Ref:2776557)

Will American-DTM make a vehicle that is more expensive than the main race run?　

Speed-King · 18 Oct 2010, 10:35 (Ref:2776578)

Probably not... DPs with engine are around 550k $...

Current DTM-cars at about 750k €, but the next generation cars are expected to cost about half as much... depending on where the $ and the € is by then, they might cost about the same... but subsidies from the manufacturer could change that.

Japanese Samurai · 18 Oct 2010, 12:09 (Ref:2776616)

CFRP monocoque chassis that is cheaper than tubular frame chassis?
It is wonderful!

Speed-King · 18 Oct 2010, 12:57 (Ref:2776635)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

CFRP monocoque chassis that is cheaper than tubular frame chassis?
It is wonderful!

Three things playing into that, I guess:
1. Economy of scale: Whoever gets chosen to built the DTM-spec-chassis will built A LOT of them, even if they choose different suppliers for the regional series, each of them will built at least 25-30 of those things. That should definitely help keeping the costs down.
2. There are more parts that add to the costs of the car not just the bare chassis.
3. Tubeframes are a LOT cheaper to repair when damaged...

kyoung · 18 Oct 2010, 13:06 (Ref:2776642)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

saying Hi to his wife and kids back home?

Now thats funny.

Danske · 18 Oct 2010, 15:00 (Ref:2776700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by inpitlane

I think the DTM move is an attempt by GA to try and attract ALMS punters who otherwise wouldn't be interested in the GA.

At least according to the Other Pruett it was DTM that initiated the contact with Grand-Am.

NaBUru38 · 18 Oct 2010, 16:28 (Ref:2776733)

That means it was the manufacturers.

**FIRE** · 18 Oct 2010, 16:56 (Ref:2776746)

I assume they [ITR on behalf of Mercedes, BMW and Audi] bought a time slot at the NASCAR and GA events.

TWK · 18 Oct 2010, 17:01 (Ref:2776749)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

I assume they [ITR on behalf of Mercedes, BMW and Audi] bought a time slot at the NASCAR and GA events.

You assume wrong.

**joeb** · 18 Oct 2010, 18:14 (Ref:2776778)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

I assume they [ITR on behalf of Mercedes, BMW and Audi] bought a time slot at the NASCAR and GA events.

Regardless of how the money shakes out, I think both sides (ITR and NASCAR) see perceived benefits from some kind of shared weekend. The DTM folks probably want to sell more cars in the States, and the Nascar folks likely want to sell more tickets.

rich07 · 18 Oct 2010, 21:20 (Ref:2776860)

Quote:

Originally Posted by inpitlane

He was on the Lexus stand for the LFA reveal on the media day, we have him on tomorrow nights In Pit Lane and the full interview on Cup Day.

Thanks. Looking forward to checking out the interview.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

saying Hi to his wife and kids back home?

Nice one.

HJJ · 18 Oct 2010, 21:30 (Ref:2776868)

Not so fast..........

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

Fogelhund · 18 Oct 2010, 21:45 (Ref:2776873)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJJ

Not so fast..........

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87515

Tom Bledsoe, President of Grand Am, seems to disagree with DeLorenzo.

Speed-King · 18 Oct 2010, 22:17 (Ref:2776881)

Lorenzo often seems to sell his wishes as facts, but this really takes the cake... can't wait to see him backpedalling on that one!

Looks to me like this was written after Aufrecht's initial statement on Friday, but before the official PR that included Bledoe's remarks on Sunday...

Fogelhund · 18 Oct 2010, 22:27 (Ref:2776884)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Lorenzo often seems to sell his wishes as facts, but this really takes the cake... can't wait to see him backpedalling on that one!

Looks to me like this was written after Aufrecht's initial statement on Friday, but before the official PR that included Bledoe's remarks on Sunday...

Sent him the Bledoe comments and link... he isn't backpedalling. Strange.

dxk1 · 18 Oct 2010, 23:15 (Ref:2776896)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJJ

Not so fast..........

http://www.autoextremist.com/fumes1/

The best thing in that article was the fabulous picture of the Ford J car down at the bottom. I remember when that picture was first printed in my Road & Track Magazine umpteen years ago.

DK

**skycafe** · 19 Oct 2010, 02:05 (Ref:2776918)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed-King

I beg to differ. The DP-formula is to a certain extent modelled after the first few years of IMSA GTP... that is the years before Bishop's nemesis Porsche weasled their way into his series again...

But, the GTP cars as they developed were never staid or fixed to a point in development. I may be wrong, but I don't believe the T600 Lola won a race after the debut year in 1981. The Marches came along, with a rapid ramping up of changes. At the same time you had the Porsche 935's becoming ever more extreme and exciting to watch in development. Ford came with the Probe, Chevy took a Lola development and called it Corvette, March's got turbo Buick power and become bottle rockets to watch. In what became Lights, you had Argos and Tigas that developed and in the case of the Argos became Kudzus. The early days of the Nissan program began during that time too. The Porsche 962 hardly was a fixed point either, as they rapidly developed new aero, new mechanical packages, new chassis, and looked different race to race, let alone season to season.

The DP introduction was not much more then a polyanna view of those days, and it couldn't move from that point because it was fixed in time.

I once watched the Grand Am forum for a very short period of time. There was massive excitment over a photo of the Doran, which showed 'development,' but turned out to be the result of the angle of the sun in the photo. That the forum was really one person posting as seven people or whatever was also sadly obvious. Well, at least it was activity.

Nobody has yet speculated on which Nascar races the DTM would share a bill, if it was all real. Watkins, Sears Point, Indy, that is three. Daytona? Would DTM even consider this if they didn't get in on Daytona? Fontana is a given I would think, because of S. California.

Does Nascar still do the big show at Martinsville? The fans in those places are already having issues with Toyota, so sending BMW, Mercedes and Audi into that fray should gain front page on almost any news outlet in the world

robert

NaBUru38 · 19 Oct 2010, 12:50 (Ref:2777095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

Nobody has yet speculated on which Nascar races the DTM would share a bill, if it was all real. Watkins, Sears Point, Indy, that is three. Daytona? Would DTM even consider this if they didn't get in on Daytona? Fontana is a given I would think, because of S. California.

It's been done in the thread called "DTM USA". Martinsville is a brilliant idea!

JAG · 19 Oct 2010, 17:46 (Ref:2777166)

You have to think there's a missing piece to this puzzle.

Quite why NASCAR would take the wind out of GA's sails as they were gaining traction with news of R8's entering doesn't make sense, not when any DTM US series is still over two years away.

The value of customer R8's to GA is somewhat devalued if factory DTM cars are on the horizon, likewise the financial argument to keep DP revisions to a minimum is fine in isolation but not when state-of-the-art DTM's will be on the same billl.

One series is endurance, the other sprint, but it's obvious DTM would cast a large shadow over GA and hit GA's aspirations of being a direct ALMS rival.

helgi · 19 Oct 2010, 20:33 (Ref:2777228)

I think it's not difficult to "balance" forces of DTM cars and DP. Besides, having only 6 races, half a season, new champ won't have any chances to shadow the main event. Of course, I can mistake. And I don't want GA and ALMS to have a real "war" which can damage one of the rivals. True sport competition between two champs is good, but when big business comes...

HJJ · 19 Oct 2010, 23:04 (Ref:2777277)

Not so fast (part deux)............more questions......

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101019/FREE/101019884

mountainstar · 19 Oct 2010, 23:27 (Ref:2777281)

Quote:

Originally Posted by HJJ

Not so fast (part deux)............more questions......

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20101019/FREE/101019884

I think it all depends to me, what the rules and design end up being.

At the moment for instance, Super GT and the DTM are rather opposite one another. Super GT being extreme sports car racing and the DTM a silhouette touring car series. Whatever this US DTM ends up being, I would prefer a 4 door for the cars.

The ALMS I think will do fine if it continues to embrace new technology and high end car marques like Porsche and Ferrari as well as running great endurance events. As history has shown there always seems to be an element of the population that enjoys that sort of racing. The worst thing ALMS could do is decide to chase the lowest common denominator and roll around in the mud pit with grand am and try to copy grand am.

I think the grand am prototypes will probably fade away as it's already a fairly dull and useless series already and it will have no place in the future wedged in between DTM and the ALMS.

TF110 · 20 Oct 2010, 02:24 (Ref:2777322)

One thing that I can tell you about why I doubt they'll move towards 4 doors. Why? Because BMW using the M3 in the future of DTM. They will no longer use 4 doors because the M3 isn't going to be produced in 4 door trim. They will only make the M3 in a coupe version. This is why I feel that they'll make the cars more like SuperGT.

helgi · 20 Oct 2010, 07:12 (Ref:2777371)

But back in early 90's two door BMW was racing against Audi and Merc sedans. And then Opel came with their Calibra. Maybe, they are going the same way now? Besides GTA has allowed four-doors silhouettes in GT500, or I'm mistaken?

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