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26 Aug 2018, 18:25 (Ref:3846347) | #1751 | ||
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IndyCar tyres: One size fits all weapons F1 tyres: Highly tuned for very specific circumstances. I suspect the "ideal" tyre really lies somewhere in between these two ideals. |
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26 Aug 2018, 19:40 (Ref:3846381) | #1752 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
26 Aug 2018, 23:40 (Ref:3846431) | #1753 | |
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That's more a comment on working on things that aren't the problem, it's not meant to be literally taken. But hey if you've never heard it used before in that context, welcome to the world, it's used OFTEN.
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27 Aug 2018, 09:58 (Ref:3846487) | #1754 | |
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It's because the powers that be like answering questions no one asks. That's how we ended up with that knockout qualifying at the beginning of 2016 or the double points finale in 2014
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31 Aug 2018, 10:51 (Ref:3847203) | #1755 | |||
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Sadly no. Michelin is not interested in developing a 13" tyre, then an 18" tyre 12 months later. Can't blame them.
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Last edited by F1Guy; 31 Aug 2018 at 11:21. |
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31 Aug 2018, 11:19 (Ref:3847216) | #1756 | |
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Shame, because Michelin love competition
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31 Aug 2018, 11:34 (Ref:3847220) | #1757 | |
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However, the demand for the supply of 13-inch tyres for the 2020 season alone, as well as the deterioration of performance as a part of the show, goes against our principles of efficient resource management and respect for the technology of a sustainable tyre.
Good to see that Michelin have finally learned a lesson and found some principles. Perhaps the FIA will take their "deteriorating performance" and stick it up .... |
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31 Aug 2018, 11:39 (Ref:3847222) | #1758 | ||
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29 Dec 2018, 05:48 (Ref:3872951) | #1759 | |
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Interesting response from Mark Hughes to the question of whether or not Pirelli are they capable of providing a better tyre for F1 or are they limited by the technology used for the manufacture of the tyres?
Hughes says it is because of the commercial deal that Pirelli has with FOM requiring that the tyres are manufactured cheaply. The tyres are extruded not handbuilt like traditional racing tyres manufactured by Bidgestone and Michelin, the limiting performance factor is the chemicals required to make the compound runny enough to be extruded. There is a widespread misunderstanding between a tyre that can be raced hard and will see a reduction in performance as it wears like a traditional racing tyre as opposed to a tyre that has to be kept at certain temperature to stay in its performance window which imposes a slow pace and a softer tyre is faster but imposes a slower pace as you still have to strive to be within the performance window which imposes one stop races. This problem was largely solved until wide bodied cars which work the tyres harder were introduced, the problem seems to be intractable unless there is a new commercial relationship to enable Pirelli to solve the problem, if they can. Pirelli have been confirmed as the tyre supplier until 2023. Roughly taken from the answer to a question on the Motorsport magazine podcast at 52 min 38 secs here: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/f1-2018-season-review-podcast Looks like we are done as far as wheel to wheel racing goes until at least 2013, the tyres are simply not up to the challenge! |
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29 Dec 2018, 08:40 (Ref:3872961) | #1760 | ||
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29 Dec 2018, 08:56 (Ref:3872967) | #1761 | |
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Pirelli are hardly advertising a great product though are they? That's the problem with a control tyre, you've got nothing to compete against, so you can produce a sub standard product, which is hardly F1
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29 Dec 2018, 10:33 (Ref:3872976) | #1762 | ||
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This is how Continental got by (just) in IMSA. That tyre was an absolute hunk of junk. But it didn't wear (because it was made of solid titanium), and it didn't blow up (for similar reasons), so it was rarely noticed outside the paddock that the tyre was crap. The two things you don't want are extreme wear rates, and failures. |
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29 Dec 2018, 11:04 (Ref:3872982) | #1763 | |
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But it’s hardly F1, it’s supposed to be the cutting edge of technology, so it doesn’t feel right
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29 Dec 2018, 11:26 (Ref:3872987) | #1764 | |
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Maybe, but that's a simplistic way to look at F1. It has never been the cutting edge of technology in every single way. We're only looking at the tyres in this level of depth because F1 makes a big deal out of them, and they have had a lot of problems. Spec and customer parts have always been part of F1.
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29 Dec 2018, 13:10 (Ref:3872995) | #1765 | ||
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what has always interested me about (non f1) pirellis is that you can get a strange batch that has a lot of inconsistencies (that doesn’t really affect performance). which is the opposite of what you’d expect from what is allegedly a machine vs “handmade” process. |
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29 Dec 2018, 13:58 (Ref:3873000) | #1766 | |
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The first on the bandwagon of it is all Pirelli's fault, it didn't take long.
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29 Dec 2018, 15:25 (Ref:3873005) | #1767 | ||
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Why is it a bandwagon? To have the opinion that Pirelli tyres failing is a Pirelli fault? Is it not bandwagonny to suggest that it's all F1s fault?
A bandwagon is when you don't form your own opinion on a topic and simply follow others. You are jumping on the already moving wagon. There's no evidence of that here. Also, he didn't blame Pirelli. He said the product is sub-standard. He didn't say whose fault that was at all. He could well believe that it is F1s fault. Or Bernies fault. Or Trumps fault. But he does believe the product is sub-standard (which many believe it is). And finally, I don't agree with your previous statement - Quote:
A good example is how many teams choose to not run Pirellis in VLN/N24. These teams are all seasoned vets with those Pirelli tyres because they're mandatory in Blancpain and many other series. Come the 24, you see teams experimenting with Michelin, Dunlop, Falken, Yokohama and others. If they have so much data on the Pirelli tyres, why do they all drop them as soon as they're given the option? Pirelli don't make bad tyres because they want to. They make bad tyres for the reason anyone generally makes a bad product - that was the best they could do. F1 tyres are hard (or soft, ultra soft, hyper soft and super duper mega soft!), and Pirelli don't actually have that good a track record in other series either. |
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29 Dec 2018, 15:54 (Ref:3873009) | #1768 | |
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I agree with many of the posts above. The tires are spec. They are defined by what F1 wants, not what Pirelli is capably of providing. I suspect none of this really hurts the Pirelli marketing effectiveness.
Richard |
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30 Dec 2018, 02:38 (Ref:3873068) | #1769 | |
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30 Dec 2018, 11:35 (Ref:3873146) | #1770 | ||
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I hate to be the heavy (and to everyone's happiness I think I'm on my way out of tis forum) but how can anyone say with a straight face that f1 or any sort or racing for that matter is the pinnacle of anything if it relies on rubber to transfer power to the ground?
And not just that but to transfer power at a fraction of power geranerated? That's the best we can hope for right?p This is truly an antiquated notion no? Much like a human using their legs to run right? But hey maybe another pre colonial Corp can do it better...maybe they can restore our faith in technology? Maybe people will start buying tires then right? How anyone thinks f1 is the pinnacle is beyond my understanding... |
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30 Dec 2018, 16:31 (Ref:3873172) | #1771 | ||
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It won't hurt their marketing effectiveness, as I doubt the average motorist is particularly interested tyre specs. Pirelli don't have to do much to market themselves, just being the tyre supplier for F1 is enough. It is a marketing dream.
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30 Dec 2018, 16:50 (Ref:3873174) | #1772 | |
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And to add to that, they can put "F1 Champions" sticker on marketing stuff. The average motorist doesn't know they're the only supplier.
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2 Jan 2019, 13:46 (Ref:3873611) | #1773 | |
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Tyres are one of the fundamental problems of F1 and became so when BE decided to limit the supplier to the best bidder and then dictate what he thought was the answer to good racing and that was insist the sole supplier make unpredictable and less dependable tyres. Good one BE, you are no ones hero for doing this. I can't see what is so hard about reversing the decision and going back to the way it used to be.
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2 Jan 2019, 15:18 (Ref:3873622) | #1774 | |
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Blaming BE for everything is very bandwagon.
F1 tyre bidding was not restricted to 1 bidder. Currently nobody else wants to make tyres. Michelin only wants to if the new tyres fit their idea of what an F1 tyre would be. You can open it up to 10 different suppliers if you want, but nobody is interested. |
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2 Jan 2019, 15:50 (Ref:3873624) | #1775 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
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