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Old 18 Jan 2003, 23:11 (Ref:478540)   #1
RWC
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RWC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What,REALLY is stopping the major tweams from starting the GPWC sooner than 2008??

Yes,i know they are 'contracted' to the current concord agreement but what does that mean REALLY.Are they actually banned from running any cars in another race series?Surely if they leave f1(notice no capitals),then they could be sued by bernie,etc(and i'm sure bernie would LOVE the chance to get even MORE of someone elses money,LOL).
But what if there is a major disagreement over the way the rules are interpreted??
I'm GUESSING that the manufacturers would still have to race in australia -i use this as an example because of the current talk about it(and take the fia to the Lusane court later-because that's what they're obliged to do under the concord agreement).


***It's easy to see sometime in the future a situation of f1 getting so annoyed with max and bernie's antics that they just pull out of f1,CHANGE THE TEAMS NAMES and set up the GPWC much sooner than 2008***

Yes i know it's nowhere near good,but what technically is stopping them..??
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Old 18 Jan 2003, 23:34 (Ref:478573)   #2
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Well Arrows and Prost went belly up, so I supose the other teams can say they are going belly up also. This won't happen because there is too much money involved. The teams may hate Max and the FIA, but they have admitted they do need someone to provide and uphold the rules. Otherwise it would descend into Formula Libre in the truest sense.
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Last edited by Valve Bounce; 18 Jan 2003 at 23:36.
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Old 19 Jan 2003, 02:36 (Ref:478696)   #3
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Logrence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They're under contract, so unless they can prove the FIA have failed to keep their end of the contract up I would assume it's as tight as Anne Widdecombe's knickers.
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Old 19 Jan 2003, 02:46 (Ref:478706)   #4
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EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
They could go belly-up. The signatories are Williams and Mclaren, not BMW and DaimlerChrysler. Fold Mclaren and start Mercedes GP-it feasible.

Heinous, but feasible.
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Old 19 Jan 2003, 18:20 (Ref:479195)   #5
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kdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridkdr should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
mercedes gp...i'd support that team

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Old 19 Jan 2003, 22:35 (Ref:479441)   #6
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F1 is basically a well organised shell under which the top (what we consider the top that is) drivers compete in a race series under rules developed by the FIA. Basically there is nothing to stop a team from pulling out of F1 for financial reasons or whatever - just look at the number who did over the years, including the greatest names that ever raced. Another sries could be formed, like IRL or CART and cars can be enterred by the current teams under a slightly different name like Frank Williams racing, team Dennis, Forza Ferrari, whatever the lawyers consider is far enough away from the original teams that pulled out. No problemo. The difficulty is within the manufacturers themselves, who are totally self serving, who will push any existing set of rules to the limit and even cheat to get ahead of their rivals. And they don't have a set of rules to race under. And if you think their acceptance of last years rules as concrete, think again - those bent rules are there because they couldn't be policed, thus allowing Trax and LC to exist.
We may not like max, nor Bernie, nor the FIA. But is there an alternative? Who is going to run it? Flav?? Get real - there is nobody who could write a set of rules and police it properly for that bunch (manufacturers). Any alternative series run by the GPWC will be self destructive, aided by expensive lawyers.
I know this is speculative rubbish, but it's fun
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Old 19 Jan 2003, 23:23 (Ref:479498)   #7
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RWC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think the GPWC COULD be succesfull.
Actually ,the way things are turning out it's obvious that the manufacturers ARE going to control f1 into the future-wether they do it themselves (as GPWC) or force the fia and bernie to do things properly..it don't matter either way.
They are the powerbrokers of the next 10 or so years(depending on how long it suits them....)
We have zero choice but to live with it and try to influence them to provide good racing-I can see this happening infinitely more likely than trying to get the fia to do anything sensible
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Old 20 Jan 2003, 09:18 (Ref:479748)   #8
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I think the major limitation is the television rights, which is effectively controlled by Bernie Ecclestone. Also I think you find that the contracts that FIA signs with individual speedways and races prohibit the use of the racetracks for any other major open wheel racing that would oppose F1. That's why CART has had difficulty finding tracks to race at in Europe. I don't think the manufacturers what to spend hundreds of millions without getting any return in terms of profits from tickets, television rights or concessions.
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Old 20 Jan 2003, 09:26 (Ref:479752)   #9
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Super Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think this piece (below)on www.grandprix.com pretty much sums up how these corporate giants work, left hand not knowing what the right hand is saying or doing. It's probably worth pointing out that despite all their bluster, two of the GPWC members are in serious financial problems. The US stock market is allegedly putting Ford under pressure to prove it's solvency, with major concerns over it's debts and lack of progress in reducing costs.

As for FIAT, who knows if it will even continue to exist as an auto maker, part or all of it may be sold - other parts of the FIAT empire may be sold to prop it up. Ferrari has had part of it's equity placed with banker's, maybe it will be floated or sold off.

Whatever, these two players have more on their plate than keeping 2 racing drivers in work, and as I've said before a change in direction from them is but a board meeting away. Remember Ford's commitment to F1 was so strong that Bill Ford the chairman didn't even know who Eddie Irvine was, all he knew was that he cost a lot money.....


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns07627.html

Explain this...
On Thursday the GPWC board of directors met in Berlin and issued a statement which said that the membership was "dismayed" at the cost-cutting measures put forward by FIA President Max Mosley. The GPWC (which includes BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ferrari, Ford and Renault) said that it does not believe that "the content, and manner of implementation of Wednesday's proposed changes are consistent with the contractual framework under which Formula 1 operates" and that the GPWC "will therefore ask the teams affiliated to its members to analyse the appropriate mechanisms available to them, to ensure that changes are not implemented, or precedents set, that will cause problems for Formula 1, the teams and the drivers in the future."

At virtually the same time Ferrari's racing boss Jean Todt said the following:

"One must consider that the entire world is going through its worst economic crisis since 1929. It is not just sport which therefore finds itself in a difficult situation. The new rules are put forward as a way of reducing costs. It is clear that one team might be in favour of one modification but not another, with another team adopting the opposite view. We will have to reach an agreement which suits all parties involved. The only thing that is certain is that a reduction of costs is in the best interests of everyone."

And Renault Sport boss Flavio Briatore says:

"The changes the FIA has decided upon are a step in the right direction. It is imperative we ensure that our sport has a long-term future. We need to offer a better show on track whilst reducing costs, which have reached enormous levels in recent seasons. Having said that, we must think about, and methodically examine, these measures in terms of their feasibility and the time-scale needed to adapt to them."

And the Ford Motor Company's Jaguar Racing is reportedly happy with the changes as it tries to cut its costs.

So while the GPWC is saying that it is united against the proposed changes three of the five member companies are broadly in favour of the cost-cutting...
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Old 20 Jan 2003, 11:24 (Ref:479833)   #10
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Originally posted by RWC
I think the GPWC COULD be succesfull.
Actually ,the way things are turning out it's obvious that the manufacturers ARE going to control f1 into the future-wether they do it themselves (as GPWC) or force the fia and bernie to do things properly..it don't matter either way.
They are the powerbrokers of the next 10 or so years(depending on how long it suits them....)
In which case GPWC is ultimately doomed- with the exception of Ferrari, I can't think of a single manufacturer that has supported F1 CONTINUOUSLY for more than a few years at a time- if they continue to do that in a manufacturer-based series, then we'd going to be looking of grids of 10 cars or less within a few years....
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Old 20 Jan 2003, 12:17 (Ref:479862)   #11
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EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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...with the exception of Ferrari, I can't think of a single manufacturer that has supported F1 CONTINUOUSLY for more than a few years at a time....
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The whole point of this mess is that everyone knows its in their best interest to keep the FIA F1 World Championship alive and the Constructors know that the the involvement of the Major Manufacturers who compose the GPWC is a chimera. This is a load of political posturing to get a bigger slice of the pie.

As Super Tourer says, the "left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing."

In the end, its making everybody look bad. Given the state of the World Ecomony and the health of the firms behind the GPWC AND the volatile state of F1, the Majors are behaving irresponsibley.
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Old 20 Jan 2003, 12:21 (Ref:479867)   #12
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. . . . . the Majors are behaving irresponsibley.
So what else is new?

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Old 20 Jan 2003, 12:47 (Ref:479882)   #13
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EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Doesn't the predictibility of it all depress you as well, Max?
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