Caddy makes the World Challenge rumors official

[vwpilot]

Here is the info on the Caddy effort in the series. Looks pretty cool and we'll see how it turns out.

http://www.speedarena.com/artman/pub...cle_3812.shtml

[nsxr]

they should of left it all black it looked evil. whats the back sappose to be?

[GTRMagic]

So what will the excuse be when these Caddies dont win?

[cybersdorf]

This is a 3 year programme:

After the 2004 season, they'll get rid of that faux radiator grille. After the 2005 season, they'll set up a facility in England where they'll build a new car that will look something like this:

http://www.opel-performance.de/image...ews_172_03.jpg

Halfway into the 2006 season, they'll scrap the whole project.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by nsxr
they should of left it all black it looked evil. whats the back sappose to be?

That's the colours in the crest in the Cadillac emblem.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
This is a 3 year programme:

After the 2004 season, they'll get rid of that faux radiator grille. After the 2005 season, they'll set up a facility in England where they'll build a new car that will look something like this:

http://www.opel-performance.de/image...ews_172_03.jpg

Halfway into the 2006 season, they'll scrap the whole project.

Your last prediction may be true.

The rocker-panels on the DTM cars are bs. Having to run something that approaches stock rockers, at least ties the car in with its production equiv.
Bob

[cybersdorf]

If you ask me, there is nothing "production" about this car anymore. It really belongs in the ALMS rather than SWC.

[vwpilot]

Cyber,

Are you privy to some info about how far off stock these cars are, because at this time there has nothing official been released. I have heard from those that have spoken with GM that, yes, there have been some certain rules allowances becuase the cars are such pigs to begin with, however, there have been some allowances for the champion Audis such as using their own built parts while the rules really state they must be factory, PTG got some allowances such as the only car in the field without a stock tranny while all others are running stock boxes and I'm sure there are others that I dont know about.

I'm not defending the Caddies, just wondering if we really know exactly HOW far from stock they are before condemning them.

[Liz]

I can't imagine racing a Cadillac. I remember Gilles referring to a really bad Ferrari he got stuck with as "My hopelessly fast Red Cadillac." He was not being complimentary.

[gttouring]

i really like that Caddillac is entering the arena to fight. Not in a vague LMP way, but a good CTS-V "looks like the car you buy" SWC GT racer-take that Audi RS6 4wd.
they should call the SWC trans-am by the way, it fits.

[gttouring]

oh the car is said to be 73% production (whatever 73% that may be.
http://www.world-challenge.com/news/04press1.html

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by gttouring
oh the car is said to be 73% production (whatever 73% that may be.

The remaining 27% is what they cut away to make it as low as it is.
No I don't have any "inside info" it just doesn't look very "stock" to me. Clearly, they made plenty of changes to the CTS body, and I think we can safely assume that they are not without the corresponding changes to what's under the body. The Audis were a step in the wrong direction, is this another one? Is this series getting too expensive?

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by cybersdorf
Is this series getting too expensive?

IMHO yes. This was a great series, and now is becoming the playground of some rather factory entries. I wish these guys would just enter GT racing, or turn Speed into a proper touring car series.

[billnchristy]

It is getting a little out of hand, maybe they need a factory and a privateer class for both TC and GT.

GT has cars like David Farmer's (who may not be coming back due to finances) thta might spend 65k for the season.

It also has cars like last years M3s (psuedo factory) that spent 1 million for the 4 car team...thats quite a bit of disparity!!

TC is also pretty bad off, but not as evident. The top tier TC cost over 65k where you see many cars out there that are 20k or less when put up for sale.

At LRP last year there were Speed TCs that had license plates on them 3hrs before the race and you also have the cars with painted headlights...hmmm...

Something needs to be done or it will be an 8 car factory series with no private participation!

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by billnchristy
It is getting a little out of hand, maybe they need a factory and a privateer class for both TC and GT.

Or merge the faster SWC cars with the ALMS, and do away with the prototype classes instead?

[Tim Northcutt]

My Thoughts:

1. The only "production" Caddy that I think would fit in ALMS is the sports roadster coupe that is part of their line....although they still "should" be in ALMS anyway with their prototype LMPs that are collecting dust somewhere...

the CTS is a Touring Car....let them race in a Touring Car series...

but on a postive note, I'll bet this car has a ton of horses under the hood...

2. I also agree that entries like these tend to get away from what the SWC was supposed to be about, don't they....and I think it is a shame that with every decent idea eventually comes the fat wallet close behind to price the little guys out of yet another racing option to compete in...

3. Personally, I think the whole "angular styling" that Cadillac has adopted is downright Butt-Ugly...and the CTS, when you see it in person, looks like one of those Full-Sized USA Land Yachts with the tail lopped off of it....

4. If the Baby-Boomer Yuppies that are driving BMW or Mercedes sedans don't switch their rides for Cadillacs within two racing seasons, you can bet your paycheck that Cadillac will drop this racing program like a hot potato, too, just like they did the LMP program...

and finally

5. The only thing I can imagine doing in a Cadillac would have involved the back seat on Prom Night...but I drove my Dad's Ford LTD to the Prom...so I guess I can't even imagine doing THAT in a Cadillac...let alone race in one.....

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by billnchristy
It is getting a little out of hand, maybe they need a factory and a privateer class for both TC and GT.
GT has cars like David Farmer's (who may not be coming back due to finances) thta might spend 65k for the season.
It also has cars like last years M3s (psuedo factory) that spent 1 million for the 4 car team...thats quite a bit of disparity!!
TC is also pretty bad off, but not as evident. The top tier TC cost over 65k where you see many cars out there that are 20k or less when put up for sale.
At LRP last year there were Speed TCs that had license plates on them 3hrs before the race and you also have the cars with painted headlights...hmmm...
Something needs to be done or it will be an 8 car factory series with no private participation!

B&C:
This is nothing new and is just the way racing is.
It is not the cost of the cars that hurts, it is the lack of prize money.
Back in the late seventies, Cat. II Corvettes (AAGT)cost approx. 100,000 dollars(+ or - 25,000) but they were racing for top prize money of as little as 7,000 dollars. This is what killed the Cat.II Trans-Am and why there were no new American challengers to Porsche after 1977(IMSA included, new GTX cars were an entirely new class).
Remember a 1977 dollar would be about 3 dollars in todays money.
When SCCA offered a good product in Can-Am and Trans-Am fairly decent prize money followed.
ALMS and others have potential for something equal to the old series, if they cave in the way France Jr. finally did, putting money before the reason France Sr. started racing in the first place, the money would be(maybe) there but the product would be a farce at best, and if hard times come, it would die on the vine.
One reason road racing servived the nasty seventies is the series never turned its back on the gear-head fans and racers who show up come hell-or-highwater. They come to see or race their heart-felt favorites, loyalty reigned.
Unfortunately the racing big-wigs did not reward the racers who came because they wanted to, not because the money was good. The racers finally gave in crying-"That's all I cans stands and I can't stands no more."
Bob

[73_Gstock]

How much difference is there in these two lovely ladies:

http://www.fantasycars.com/sedans/audi/audi_rs61.jpg

http://www.championracing.net/Audi_R...S6Essen_03.jpg

it doesn't look near as much as the CTS-V, does it?

[Tim Northcutt]

Doesn't look near as much of what????

Sorry, 73_gstock...I missed a few syllables there...or I'm brain-dead...

please clarify for me...I'm not sure what you're saying...

[awegrzyn]

There is always one kind of opinion in here. Flame all the cars that are not
Audi, Porsche or etc. "Caddy will drop the project", "Caddy is ugly", Caddy this caddy that.

The truth is (and this ties to the "ALMS, The True Truth " thread) that, because the Caddies (and the others) are not there in the ALMS I'm not driving to ALMS races anymore.

You should people like, start appreciating all the entries into any series. Only that will make the series interesting.

Maybe the Caddy dropped the project with LMP, but you know what, they were really fun to watch and I really appreciated seeing them race in Mid Ohio (2001). The fans actually seem to cheer the Caddy more than any Audi that was there.

Open up a little and don't let the emotion ("I would not race in a Caddy") cloud your vision. I could actually race and win in a Caddy.

BTW – that’s a pretty car.

[Tim Northcutt]

Each is entitled to an opinion, aweqrzyn....

I'd love to see the Caddy LMP back....or if Caddy doesn't want to run it, let a privateer run it....they stopped the project just when it was starting to get results on the track....

and I'm glad that they are going to race this CTS in the SWC...

But I don't like the new lines on Cadillacs at all....too choppy, rigid, or whatever adjective you can think of along those lines....and the word "pretty" would not be a word I would use to describe any of the cars currently in the Cadillac line..

That's my opinion...and you're entitled to yours...

and I'm not an Audi or a Porsche fan....I'm a race fan who likes sportscars....concerning my other related comments....the CTS is not a sportscar...it's a touring car...it even has four doors for crying out loud...and the ALMS, the ACO and now LMES is about sportscars...not touring cars...

So I'm glad the CTS is not in ALMS...because IMO it doesn't belong in a sportscar series...neither does the BMW M3...it, too, is a touring car...

Concerning the GM commitment:

Cadillac has undertaken this project to sell cars...and their target audience is the exact target I stated above....their trying to broaden their market share beyond the geezers who have bought them for decades....

If racing in this series doesn't help them to cut into that market, they will not continue the program for a lengthy period of time....that is a business decision...pure and simple...

their Board will look at what they're spending vs. the return it generates in sales...and if that is a red ink figure after 2-3 years, they will discontinue it...

Sorry, but that is a fact....

I probably could race and win in a Cadillac in the proper series....but I wouldn't own one, and thus I doubt that I'll ever get that chance to race one....

Why???

Because IMO, they are butt-ugly...

[pirenzo]

1) Judging by past experience, this car is ****.

2) In two years time this car will look like an Audi

3) What the heck is the World Challenge?

[GTRMagic]

If Cadillac were serious, they would be in F1 tomorrow....

[skycafe]

I think my big regret with the Caddy LMP program was that they spent $XX Million USD, and while they did climb the curve, they didn't really do that well, and then they are gone. The money and marketing people at other big auto companies see that and it discourages their involvment, no matter what engineering might be bringing to the table.

Their Speed program will be a good test of the Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday adage. Honestly, unless they race and win with these things I don't see the people out to buy a sports sedan going to a Caddy dealer, instead they are visiting BMW and Audi dealers.

[gttouring]

the current caddy does seem to have more in common with a DTM racer than a Touring car- much less a proper GT.
but Speed World Challenge is its own type of racing- not ACO or FIA, it is SCCA pro.
It is a lot similar to T/A of old than anything it pretends to be-a GT series, but all national level GT series where the cars won't cross over into an international field they can do what they want... (problems with GA is they are seen as international and playing off as a national...)
like Brit GT- isn't this where the Golf "gt" ran?