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18 Mar 2004, 20:36 (Ref:909711)
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 422
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Ferrari 312PB
After watching that movie on speed that car seemed pretty fast despite only having about 45ohp.
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18 Mar 2004, 21:55 (Ref:909848)
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 249
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Light & Nimble and Top Line Drivers to boot.
PRF |
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18 Mar 2004, 22:45 (Ref:909908)
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 679
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the drivers loved the car...it was basically a gp car with fenders and very small....i was at the glen in 72 and watched the 6 hour race and could'nt believe how efficiently peter schetty as team manager ran the team....like clockwork....i was just dissappointed that the matras didn't show up....i have 7 312pbs from 71/72/73 in my 1/43 model collection....
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__________________
"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley
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19 Mar 2004, 08:55 (Ref:910437)
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 249
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From memory, the driver line up consisted of a 'whose who' of this discipline. Ickx, Andretti, Peterson, Merzario, Schenken and later in '73 joined by the 'living legend' Brian Redman. I'm sure I've missed someone!
PRF |
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19 Mar 2004, 09:09 (Ref:910448)
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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The 312PB was the best of its era. Had Ferrari continued in sportscar racing into '74 and beyond, Porsche's list of 1970s/80s race wins may have turned out to be somewhat shorter.
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19 Mar 2004, 12:12 (Ref:910640)
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#6 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 679
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Quote:
clay reggazzoni carlos pace |
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__________________
"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley
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19 Mar 2004, 12:48 (Ref:910674)
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#7 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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Ignazio Giunti
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19 Mar 2004, 14:09 (Ref:910779)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,026
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312PB not a great car. Matra's blew it away in '73, I think Ferrari missed LM in '72 cos they knew Matra would do them there. Great drivers admittedly, but very little opposition in '72, and car not great either in 71. Even the Alfa T33 beat the 917s occasionally, Ferrari never did. If they'd have carried on in 74 Matra would again have walked them, Gulf too maybe, possibly the Alfas/911 Turbo too.
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19 Mar 2004, 14:33 (Ref:910803)
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,814
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I don't think that is the case Dan. In 1971, the 312 was easily the fastest 3-litre and only missed out on wins due to some incredibly bad luck - I think that they were taken out by backmarkers at least twice. Of course, they could have done with another car...
At Nurburgring, it was particularly good. Ickx absolutely demolished the field of 908/3s and Alfas until trouble struck. As for the Matra, 1973 was a great year between the 312PB and MS670, with the edge going to Matra over the season. At Le Mans, one 312 (Ickx/Redman?) led until the last couple of hours until the engine blew and one still finished second. Hardly 'blown away'. Cybers, I'm sure Porsche's win list would be shorter, but I wouldn't underestimate their potential to show Ferrari a thing or two! Last edited by krt917; 19 Mar 2004 at 14:34. |
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19 Mar 2004, 22:55 (Ref:911240)
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#10 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 249
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Thought we'd exhausted the driver line up. However, cosulted my bible and thought these drivers should be mentioned. Non seemed to be regulars but all the same they were 'works' drivers at any given time:
Nino Vaccarella Sandro Munari Helmut Marko and the bible - Ferrari 313 & 512 Sports Racing Cars by Ian Bamsey ISBN 0-85429-577-1 KRT917 - Yes you are correct. It was Redman who was paired with Ickx in the 73 Le Mans leading car. It was 2 laps up at one stage until a cracked exhaust failed and then a pot failed. This car was some 2 laps up on the nearest Matra at this stage. Ferrari ran a 'hare' which was the Merzario/Pace car to break the Gulf Mirage's and Matra's. It worked to a certain degree. The more causious 312's of Redman/Ickx and Schenken/Reeutemann failed and the 'hare' finished 2nd O/A. PRF |
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20 Mar 2004, 03:25 (Ref:911402)
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 679
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Quote:
daytona: gregg/haywood, porsche carrera vallelunga 6 hours: pescaralo/larrouse/cevert, matra-simca dijon 1000 kms : pescaralo/larrouse, matra-simca monza 1000 kms : ickx/redman, ferrari spa 1000 kms : bell/hailwood, mirage-ford targa florio : muller/lennep, porsche carrera lemans : pescaralo/larrouse, matra-simca nurburgring 1000 kms : ickx/redman osterreichring 1000 kms : pescaralo/larrouse, matra-simca watkins glen 6 hours : pescaralo/larrouse, matra-simca yes matra did win on 5 different occasions, but ferrari took second on each occasion that a matra won and that year only the best 7 race results counted towards the final tally....if all points that year were allowed for the manufacturers championship then ferrari would have won the title by 13 points.... |
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__________________
"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley
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20 Mar 2004, 03:30 (Ref:911409)
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#12 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 679
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Quote:
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__________________
"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley
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20 Mar 2004, 09:04 (Ref:911740)
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 249
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Quote:
PRF |
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20 Mar 2004, 12:08 (Ref:911936)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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He did - 1972 Österreichring 1000k, #3 Ferrari 312PB, w/ Carlos Pace, 2nd place. It was his last year of competition; later thatyear, he lost an eye in an accident in the French GP.
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20 Mar 2004, 15:08 (Ref:912061)
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Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 679
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Quote:
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__________________
"Drinking makes such fools of people, and people are such fools to begin with that it's compounding a felony." Robert Benchley
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20 Mar 2004, 15:41 (Ref:912128)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,580
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Marko was with Alfa Romeo in 1972 (2nd in the Targa), and this was his only Ferrari drive that year, and I believe ever. Clearly a one-off deal for Marko's home race.
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2 Nov 2006, 18:21 (Ref:1756446)
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#17 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
So just how 'based on' or nothing more than an F1 car were they really? Looking at them with the body work removed, I don't see any resemblance to an F1 car... Anyone have a better design/build history of the cars? |
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2 Nov 2006, 20:48 (Ref:1756525)
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#18 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 151
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Engine and gearbox were about the only carry-overs from the F1 car.
And even the engine was slightly detuned for endurance purposes.. |
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2 Nov 2006, 21:21 (Ref:1756547)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
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Many thanks!!! Wish i could see that in an article or a book somewhere...
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2 Nov 2006, 21:39 (Ref:1756571)
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#20 | ||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,583
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The boxer engine put constraints on the position of the exhaust and rear engine. The same constraints as in the F1 car, so the Sportscar copied the F1 suspension. It sounds like location points on the gearbox and the layout was almost the same. Possibly the front layout was similar too and this prompted the two seater GP car (ref Motorsport p46 vol LXXXII Nov 2006). According to Motorsport it lapped Modena close to the GP car,sothat helps a comparison!
The engine wsa 40bhp down on the F1 unit; it was based on the F1 unit, but had significant work (shorter stroke, bigger bore, max revs 2,000 lower). The article you are looking for may well be the Motorsport one that all this is in. |
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__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously.
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2 Nov 2006, 22:18 (Ref:1756627)
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#21 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 175
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Martin,
You should pick up the new (December 2006, No. 74) issue of FORZA. Bill Oursler wrote a detailed piece on the 312 PB which appears in that issue. One sentence will likely answer your question: "The basic chassis was a traditional mix of square and round tubing bonded to both alloy and fiberglass stiffening panels...." This does not sound at all like the 312B F1 car, which used a very similar engine. Fazzaz |
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Support Kyle Petty's "Victory Junction" camp
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2 Nov 2006, 22:32 (Ref:1756635)
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#22 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
I take it its on the stands now? |
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2 Nov 2006, 22:41 (Ref:1756646)
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#23 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 175
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My subscription copy arrived today, so I would expect it on newsstands in the very near future.
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__________________
Support Kyle Petty's "Victory Junction" camp
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3 Nov 2006, 01:02 (Ref:1756715)
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#24 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,735
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Quote:
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10 Nov 2006, 15:01 (Ref:1762782)
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#25 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 13,206
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Would one of my fellow mods kindly move this to the Motorsport History Forum, please!
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