Farewell GT1?

[old man]

I am with Tux particularly where the specator is concerned, why does SRO ignore them? The hard copy magazines are just as bad, concentrating on the front class and ignoring the smaller ones.

We need to respect the spectators and give them information but how do we get the message to Ratel when the entries make enough for him to run that Bentley. Somebody needs to organise the entrants and fight for better promotion, better coverage and more race day information and specator involvement.

[ss_collins]

a video of what GT racing could be...

http://www.supergt.net/supergt/promo...promo_h_en.wmx

http://www.supergt.net/supergt/promo...promo_h_en.wmx

[old man]

Re SS Collins and G500/300,

Being ignorant can somebody tell me what these two numbers mean and if, as I assume they represent classes like GT1 and GT2, how do the rules differ from the FIA/ACO rules?

Just need to be able to keep up with all you experts

[SALEEN S7R]

Super GT is fine, but it isnt proper GT racing. The cars that the series is based upon arent real GT race cars in the true sense of the word IMO and the actual cars you see racing arent anything like their road going counterparts either, they are really closer to a LMP with road car shells.

The above video scenario would be great for GT racing, if manufacturers stumped up the cash. That isnt going to happen though is it, at least not in the short term.

[Adam43]

I'd like to see GT racing move away from the bolt-on bits, not towards it. Even in current LM series they take some of the best looking modern cars and bolt horrible bits to it. However this may be a pipe dream. Front splitters and rear wings help with equivelence and discourage homologation body specials (to a certain degree).

[Satorian]

As much as I'd love to see the cars race in nearly stock form, more extensive rebuilds like in the SuperGT give the manufacturers and teams more options to equalize performance among road cars that might have slightly different design goals and target groups.

It's more expensive and it's at danger to make the cars less recognizable, but it helps close racing. I mean, the NSX, SC430 and 350Z are all very different cars in road spec, yet they can race perfectly fine and competetively in GT500.
Same for MR-S, Ford GT, Impreza, RX7 and F360 in GT300.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Will the current GT2 become the new GT1??

Theres little diffence between GT1 and GT2 regs.

A GT2 car with an extra 50bhp and carbon breaks would do it for me.

It seems a terrible shame under the current regs a 911 is not competing for GT1 honours.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Another typically upbeat analogy!

Pray just how do the two scenarios compare Bob?

Look up the words cause and effect, or action and reaction., maybe Pandora's Box.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by JAG

Theres little diffence between GT1 and GT2 regs.

A GT2 car with an extra 50bhp and carbon breaks would do it for me.

It seems a terrible shame under the current regs a 911 is not competing for GT1 honours.

There is one rule about bodywork, that seems to say the greenhouse must use the same material as the prod. car, in either class.
If the ZO 7 is not homologated, with its carbon body, then how do they get away with using an entire carbon body on the Corvette?

To a degree I agree with you, as they could also eliminate the rear wing, which would slow them down; pump up the HP at least to current GT 1 levels and the cars would be slower

It would be best if they simply started from scratch with two classes, GTU and GTO; allow only production spoilers or wings in the rear, allow fender flares, but require production based body material, no rear diffuser, and no intake restrictors, with unrestricted rim width.
Cornering speeds would drop and IF the sanctions thought they were too close to the P cars, give the P cars bigger restrictors.

IF it is really about forcing the cars to lap with times required and restricted by the sanctions, then no matter what they do it is a losing cause, as they have reduce road racing down to semi-pro bracket racing, which they already have now with established break-out times.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

There is one rule about bodywork, that seems to say the greenhouse must use the same material as the prod. car, in either class.
If the ZO 7 is not homologated, with its carbon body, then how do they get away with using an entire carbon body on the Corvette?

the New C6 Z06 was Homologated 01.05.2006

Class, Homol No.

General Motors
GT1 002 CORVETTE Z06 01.05.2006 2013

source: http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...on_Country.pdf

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

the New C6 Z06 was Homologated 01.05.2006

Class, Homol No.
source: http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...on_Country.pdf

Arhh, my screw up but, is the entire ZO 6 legal?
Last I heard the chassis was not.

The ZO 7 is the new "super Corvette" that is supposed to supplant the current "super Corvette"
Bob

[Viper GTS-R***]

Originally Posted by old man

Re SS Collins and G500/300,

Being ignorant can somebody tell me what these two numbers mean and if, as I assume they represent classes like GT1 and GT2, how do the rules differ from the FIA/ACO rules?

Just need to be able to keep up with all you experts

Very different rules.

GT500: Cars with the power of 480 (Supra, SC430) up to 500 (NSX, 350Z)
GT300: Cars with the power of 250 up to 450.

They are, more silhoutte cars then GT's, most of all for the GT500's.
They have very good facotory support of Honda, Toyota (Lexus) and Nissan!
The imported thing of the cars in Super GT is the Aerodynamica imo.

If you are interested i prefere you to look at the official site:
http://www.supergt.net/en/
Team's and cars: http://www.supergt.net/supergt/2006/06team/index_en.htm
Push on a Team name and they show the car they used, juist like the tech. specs etc.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Arhh, my screw up but, is the entire ZO 6 legal?
Last I heard the chassis was not.

The ZO 7 is the new "super Corvette" that is supposed to supplant the current "super Corvette"
Bob

Should find out the real name this weekend. but No that car is a customer car not a race car. Not scheuled for release unto 08 at the earlest but more likley 09 relase date.

the Chassies has been approved with the necessary changes to reinforce with alunimum/composit/steel sanwich plates to weld the roll cage onto.

[old man]

G500/300

Many Thanks to Viper GTS- R for the information, there should be a "new readers start here" section!

Good debate going on now on dsc, good report from Monteret dinner as well

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Viper GTS-R***

If you are interested i prefere you to look at the official site:
http://www.supergt.net/en/
Team's and cars: http://www.supergt.net/supergt/2006/06team/index_en.htm
Push on a Team name and they show the car they used, juist like the tech. specs etc.

Ok you mechanical engineers or engine builders.

This site is rating engine power as 480 to 500 ps, Not HP.

and the torque ratings are differnt too. rated in Kgs, which I can covert and seems very low

example:
Maximum Power480 ps over / 7,200 rpm Maximum Torque52 kg-m over / 5600 rpm
or

Maximum Power500 ps / 5600 rpm Maximum Torque72 kg-m / 4000 rpm
plus they are only 3 liter engines.

any one have conversion formulas handy?

[SALEEN S7R]

As far as I know the class titles refer to the power of each class. If you have ever watched a Super GT race then you will know that the GT300 cars are signifcantly slower than the GT500 cars, by as much as 5 or 6 seconds a lap in some cases.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

O

example:
Maximum Power480 ps over / 7,200 rpm Maximum Torque52 kg-m over / 5600 rpm
or

Maximum Power500 ps / 5600 rpm Maximum Torque72 kg-m / 4000 rpm
plus they are only 3 liter engines.

Found it: 1 PS =0.9863201652997627 HP

so
480 PS ~ 473 BHP x .85 ~ 402 RWHP
500 PS ~ 493 BHP x .85 ~ 425 RWHP


.85 most used convertsion from FWHP (BHP) to Rear wheel HP. Not exact but close.

If this is the case, these Super Japan GT500 cars are still underpowered compared to the LMS / ALMS / ACO GT2 cars.

[AU N EGL]

The stock 997 GT3 has 415 BHP adn 300 ft lbs of torque. That is before race prep and tuning

Not sure what the RSRs ratings are.

anyone?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Found it: 1 PS =0.9863201652997627 HP

so
480 PS ~ 473 BHP x .85 ~ 402 RWHP
500 PS ~ 493 BHP x .85 ~ 425 RWHP


.85 most used convertsion from FWHP (BHP) to Rear wheel HP. Not exact but close.

If this is the case, these Super Japan GT500 cars are still underpowered compared to the LMS / ALMS / ACO GT2 cars.

GT500's have at least 600bhp, GT300 450 or so.

The actual Japanease translation is GT500'+'

Official figures, especailly in restrictor racing mean little. WRC manufactuers claim their cars havee 299-300bhp, that is the therorectical max the FIA want them to run. They actually have 350bhp+.

One article I read worked out the Subaru WRC's bhp, based on the 'offical', conservative, torgue figures. He figured they have 345+bhp.

Even 10 year old privateer Ford Escort WRCs claim to have 310-320bhp.

Didn't Porsche claim the RS Spyders had 485bhp, despite the ACO offcially stating LMP2 cars could have upto 550bhp when fitted with ACO restrictors?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

GT500's have at least 600bhp, GT300 450 or so.

The actual Japanease translation is GT500'+'

Official figures, especailly in restrictor racing mean little. WRC manufactuers claim their cars havee 299-300bhp, as thats the therorectical max for the restrictors they run. They actually have 350bhp+.

Even 10 year old privateer Ford Escort WRCs claim to have 310-320bhp.

Jag

I understand that. When you go to their web sites that is not what each team posts. The examples I posted below are from two diffent teams, a toyota and Nissan. But then again, teams always tell the truth about their powerplants

Team's and cars: http://www.supergt.net/supergt/2006/06team/index_en.htm

[JAG]

They are manufactuer figures, not teams. They're all factory cars.

An NSX GT500 matched the Suzuka time of the GOH R8 from 2003, the R8 wasn't run to it's max potential but it shows you the pace of these things.

They lap 2-3 seconds quicker than the old GT1 CLK-LM's and 911 GT1-98s at Suzuka.

If you notice the Arta NSX they claim:-


Maximum Power 500 ps over / - rpm
Maximum Torque 60 kg-m over / - rpm

[AU N EGL]

Not saying the cars arn't fast, on thier home tracks, they're darn fast.

I dont think these GT500 cars are as quick as current GT2 cars, close but not quite on the european circuites. and Not even close to GT1 cars.

500 PS is approx 493 BHP.

The few GT500s that have shown up on this side of the Atlantic, were just not that quick.

When these cars were put on the duno jet dynos, non were even close to 500 HP, lower 400s rwhp was more like it.

They have lots of potential, and I am sure many of us would love too see a Japanise factory GT2 teams in LMS and ALMS.

[JAG]

They were 2 seconds a lap quicker than a Goh Maserati MC12 with full width rear wing and larger (than ACO size) restrictors.

They'd be 2-3 seconds a lap quicker than a factory GT1, with ease.

[SALEEN S7R]

JAG is right on this, the GT500 class cars are indeed faster than GT1 class cars, well at least on twisty tracks they are. At somewhere like Monza id bet on a GT1 car lapping a bit quicker as it has signifcantly more power, the GT500 cars though are lots faster than a GT2 spec car.

[davemk7]

writen by me (sorry, different forum)

Originally Posted by davemk7

I very sorry about doing this but I'm certain they do faster lap times.

http://www.lmchallenge.jp/e/news/0606_01.html

the japanese le mans challenge test from motegi. (it not the quickest ferrari out there I woundn't think but it'll be close did 1.54.3.

http://supergt.net/en/

The super gt 500 class cars (lap record, so if not entirly fair) is 1.46.6 thats nearly 8 seconds quicker, even allowing 3 to 4 seconds for slow drivers and and old car, there is still a 4 second gap.

At sugo for the first jlmc test the 550 gig a 1.21.7 as its best lap of the 4 sessions.

http://www.lmchallenge.jp/e/news/0604_02.html

The super gt lap record is a 1.15.8

http://supergt.net/en/

I don't mean to be critic because i know you are all working really hard and for that I'm extremly greatful. It will be an awesome mod when finished. I'm just interested to find out why they are going to be gt2 class cars?

please correct if i'm wrong about any of this

the thread itself http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=262012
nice work check out what these guys are doing, i just winge about stuff the quote is from page 6 or 7.

it the links and lap times that are important