GPWC

[xterra48]

this whole Indy fiasco has sparked much talk of the GPWC, maybe i missed the other thread. First off do you think this was the last nail in the coffin in a compromise between GPWC crowd and FIA/ferrari, i do.

Secondly could the teams start the GPWC next year (or in '07), admittedly needing much last-minute planning, running F1 like races with their cars, but continuing to honoring the concord agreement by "running" VW polo's at all events and being DQ'd, or some other equally duplicitious scheme, retiring etc. for little money?

F1 AS WE KNOW IT IS DEAD

[Kicking-back]

F1 is not dead.

All this showed is that teams can't be relied on to make decisions and the FIA has to apply the rules.

The GPWC will not be enhanced by this weekend's events.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

F1 is not dead.

All this showed is that teams can't be relied on to make decisions and the FIA has to apply the rules.

The GPWC will not be enhanced by this weekend's events.

But Kicking-back you said the race would go a head with a full grid.
After yesterday this has certainly made it look much more likely in my view that the GPWC speculation will now be given a new chapter after the U.S. race if I can call it one.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by luke

But Kicking-back your the same person who said the race would go a head with a full grid.

There was a full grid on the warm-up lap, so technically I was right.

Anyway this has certainly made it look much more likely in my view that the GPWC speculation will now be given a new chapter after the U.S. race if I can call it one.

I really don't see why a cock-up by Michelin enhances the case for the GPWC

[luke]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

There was a full grid on the warm-up lap, so technically I was right.




I really don't see why a cock-up by Michelin enhances the case for the GPWC

If Ferrari had agreed to the the tyre wall we would have had a race.

For me Michelin were not to blame it was F1 for not getting something sorted out that should have been done overnight.

[Kicking-back]

We're going round in circles which have been debated on other threads - but Ferrari were quite right not to agree to a chicane.

They had tyres which lasted the distance - and won.

Michelin had tyres which didn't last - and scored no points.

Perfectly fair.

[xterra48]

bock on topic, the inability f the teams and the FIA to cooperate enhances the case for a GPWC

[Datsun]

I would welcome a breakaway series. I've hated the way the FIA makes and enforces rules ever since I started watching F1 in 1990. Just about every major change they've done over the years has been exactly wrong, to the point that it's been increasingly difficult to watch.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

There was a full grid on the warm-up lap, so technically I was right.

You said there would be a full grid for the race there wasn't, the warm up lap is not a race lap.

Back on topic we'll have to wait and see if a break a way series is any good, doubt it look at Champ Car, when it split up 10 years a go surely it's the last thing we want I doubt it, we don't want more confsusion especially the casual viewer but if one series sees common sence and makes good descions, I know where I'd stand.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by luke

You said there would be a full grid for the race there wasn't, the warm up lap is not a race lap.

I'm not sure about that.

For instance:
If there is a restart, there is another warm up lap.
And that lap is subtracted from the remaining number of laps ...

[mabs_nsx]

Originally Posted by xterra48

this whole Indy fiasco has sparked much talk of the GPWC, maybe i missed the other thread. First off do you think this was the last nail in the coffin in a compromise between GPWC crowd and FIA/ferrari, i do.

Secondly could the teams start the GPWC next year (or in '07), admittedly needing much last-minute planning, running F1 like races with their cars, but continuing to honoring the concord agreement by "running" VW polo's at all events and being DQ'd, or some other equally duplicitious scheme, retiring etc. for little money?

F1 AS WE KNOW IT IS DEAD

I think so but the I don't think they would start the GPWC any earlier than 2008. I really didn't want this to happen before this has happened but now I can't wait. It will still be F1 with a different name and it will not be run by absolute heads. I think 2 year olds could do a better job.

F1 is ruined
Bring on the GPWC

[Kicking-back]

If you thought this weekend was a farce, the GPWC will be even worse.

[Gt_R]

Strange that now we want people who refuse to race at Indy to host their own series.

The same guys that opted to kill the show.

[lookleft]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

Strange that now we want people who refuse to race at Indy to host their own series.

The same guys that opted to kill the show.

You don't get it do you? Once Michelin issued the advice that the tyres were not suitable the teams had NO CHOICE. No driver insurance, no public liability insurance and plain old common sense dictated the events that transpired.

The people who "refused to race at Indy" were the people that were trying to come up with a workable solution (unlike idiotic suggestions to drive "slower"). A mistake was made and the majority wanted to try and for a stop gap solution which was blocked. One party was acting in the interest of the fans the other was screwing the sport for the sake of business.

With any luck the GPWC will continue to progress and sanity will prevail - if not I personally don't see the lack of Ferrari as a big deal if there are still 5 or 6 really good teams fighting it out in a field of 22 cars. Ferrari have been nowhere this year yet we have enjoyed some of the best "racing" for the last decade.

[mabs_nsx]

Ferrari are cheats!

GPWC=No Ferrari

[Kicking-back]

Posts like that are hardly a sensible contribution to the debate.

[Gil Abobeleira]

Think about it, a championship run with french rubber and ruled by manufacturers....Hmmm, I wonder what could happen if they (those "guys" from Clermont-Ferrand) found a tire problem at their tires, would they enforce even more chicanes in our already too-much butchered tracks????

[Red]

Originally Posted by lookleft

You don't get it do you? Once Michelin issued the advice that the tyres were not suitable the teams had NO CHOICE.

But they did, didn't they? 3 choices, by my counting. Anyway, to quote FIA

Originally Posted by FIA

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount.

Why should Bridgestones be slowed too? what did they do wrong?

[1200Datto27]

Even if Ferrari had agreed to the chicane, do you really think that the FIA would have installed it? They had already said that they wouldn't, prior to JT not being invited to the meeting that discussed it.

Also, If this had been McLaren or Williams saying no, would they be getting roasted to the same amount? I'd be willing to bet that they would be portreyed as hero's for standing up to their beliefs.

[Mekola]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Posts like that are hardly a sensible contribution to the debate.

Yes, these posts are difficult to contribute in a civilized debate, but reflects the opinion of a huge mass of people. If they can't find an argument because smart people smashes all of them, they'll say their opinions using the force. A renowned person in Argentina said once that the fury is the right of the beasts.

[N I Tram]

Originally Posted by lookleft

You don't get it do you? Once Michelin issued the advice that the tyres were not suitable the teams had NO CHOICE. No driver insurance, no public liability insurance and plain old common sense dictated the events that transpired.

The people who "refused to race at Indy" were the people that were trying to come up with a workable solution (unlike idiotic suggestions to drive "slower"). A mistake was made and the majority wanted to try and for a stop gap solution which was blocked. One party was acting in the interest of the fans the other was screwing the sport for the sake of business.

With any luck the GPWC will continue to progress and sanity will prevail - if not I personally don't see the lack of Ferrari as a big deal if there are still 5 or 6 really good teams fighting it out in a field of 22 cars. Ferrari have been nowhere this year yet we have enjoyed some of the best "racing" for the last decade.

Well said. People blaming Michelin are being unfair. It's motor racing and mistakes are made. From the second this rumpus staerted, Ferrari had decided that they were going to get 18 points out of it, and were completely unwilling to compromise. And I bet none of the self-righteous pompous posts about how they had no responsibility to compromise came form people who attended the race (and who's views on this are seemingly being suppressed in a Stalinist way). They, not Michelin, are the victims.

[ActiveMS]

If the GPWC can come up with a sensible set of rules and regulations that will provide a good spectacle, maintain a certain level of technological advance in motorsport and a decent level of competition then spectators/viewers will watch it.

If the manufacturers and independent teams leave F1 with all but Ferrari left, then of course it will work. So the question is whether the teams have the balls to make the move.

Hopefully the sight of Ferrari fans all dressed up in red, booing, hissing and throwing cans/bottles at MS and RB will provide some sort of wake up call for the prancing horses who seem to have their heads in the maranello (sp) sand.

[Shoey]

I cant belive the FIA suggested that the Michilen runners slow down through the final turn. I'm sure that would have made for really great racing. I'm betting they only suggested it so they could say they offered a solution that Michilen rejected and try make up some browny points. Having the Michilen runners circling around in their own little group would have been equally as stupid. And how would they determine as a "safe" speed for the corner!

Anyway back on topic, I feel the same way as mab_nsx. I didn't like the sound of the GPWC either but on the other hand I'm getting rather sick of all the crap us fans have to put up with. I'm more convinced then ever that F1 is a business not a sport. Its a hell of a shame that F1's beatiful history has been turned into Bernie's money spinner. The FIA can hold their heads in shame to. The fact that everyone (FIA, Bernie, Michilen etc) were to busy finger pionting than working it out sums it up really.


Go GPWC!

[infoxicated]

I'd watch the GPWC simply due to the absence of Ferrari. That prima-donna outfit has had more leeway in the history of the sport than all of the other teams put together. Michael Schumacher got what? a two? three? race ban while at Benneton for a plank height infringement at Spa, yet at Ferrari he's untouchable. Coincidence? I think not.

Bernie is in bed with Ferrari - from the moment he made that clear last year, every subsequent season is a complete farce. Formula One is no longer the pinacle of motorsport, it is a laughable, over hyped circus and has been for most of the last decade.

But it's the perfect marriage of sport and technology! I hear F1 diehards cry. Yeah? That dancing Citroen must weep in his garage every night that he doesn't have any parts that have been "race tested" in Formula One... not.

The GPWC has the potential to be the series that formula one used to be, only better and not ruled by idiots playing political games at the expense of sport, which is all F1 amounts to in the 21st century.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by ActiveMS

Hopefully the sight of Ferrari fans all dressed up in red, booing, hissing and throwing cans/bottles at MS and RB will provide some sort of wake up call for the prancing horses who seem to have their heads in the maranello (sp) sand.

Was it Ferrari Fans throwing things at the Ferraris?