To be perfectly honest...

[Adam43]

Back more to what we are talking about.

Rubens is again just over 1s slower than Michael and seventh on the grid. There is a chance he is on a different strategy, but even so, I think he needs a little more pace at the moment.

Michael has a car under him that he likes, it does seem Rubens doesn't.

[Nina]

KORR has a point though.

Rubens has not exactly sparkled like Michael has and does - but he hasnt been so shabby either - he has kept out of trouble and is second in the championship, and that is exactly what some of the other drivers havent managed to do

[Logrence]

Why would you bother to drive your heart out when you know you're never going to win against Schumacher?

Cruise and collect, like Irvine. I'm sure Rubinho has a lovely nest egg built up for the kids.

[Tye]

Originally posted by Tye
It's quite obvious isn't it? How many years has this been going on now?

I was reading an interview with Frank Willaims this past week and he put it like it is. I'm not sure if the words are to the letter, but I'm sure we'll get the picture as clear as day.

"It would sure be good for the sport if Micheal's teammates were actually allowed to race against him. In 1988 when Senna and Prost were teammates at McLaren, they raced each other all the time."

I completely agree with Frank on the matter and this is why I'll never rate Micheal. What I also find amusing is the fact that the Ferrari team always say that they have this arragement because it maximises their chances at winning. What a load of **** that explanation is. It sure didn't hurt McLaren's chances in 1988 now did it? Pathetic really. It is good to see that some of us get the message

Call it like it is Frank!!

Tye

It is sure funny how you Schumacher fans have avoided commenting on this quote by Frank Williams. What is the matter...having trouble with the truth? I can't wait for you Schumacher fans to start saying that Sir Frank doesn't know what he's talking about.

In time the truth will expose this man for what he truly is, and that is a manipulating and completely unsporting driver.

Tye

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Tye

In time the truth will expose this man for what he truly is, and that is a manipulating and completely unsporting driver.

Tye

Just stop it!

I'm not a fan of Schumacher, but I acknowledge he is the most talented driver in Formula One today and possibly all time.

Open your eyes!

[ASCII Man]

He's good overall, but not the best.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
He's good overall, but not the best.

Currently?

[ASCII Man]

Currently he's the top dog, no doubt.

[Tye]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Just stop it!

I'm not a fan of Schumacher, but I acknowledge he is the most talented driver in Formula One today and possibly all time.

Open your eyes!

Well...I clearly disagree with you. Anyways, that isn't the point , Frank's comments are the point. I guess you're going to take a pass on his thoughts. I'll tell you one thing, millions of racing fans around the globe are keenly aware as to what he is saying about Michael. I hope you have the intelligence to keep the conversation civil.

Tye

[Kicking-back]

I'm perfectly civil.

It's just so frustrating that people use this who team-orders business to denigrate Schumacher.

It's all very well saying let Michael and Rubens race each other - and I support that sentiment.

I disapproved of Rubens being moved over, but it's only happened on a couple of occasions.

He clearly doesn't have the talent and/or application to beat Michael.

If he was always right on Schumacher's gearbox then there would maybe be a debate to be had.

But 99% of Michael's achievements are down to his ability and application.

Like you I supported Villeneuve and Hakkinen - and I was proud when they won their titles against the best.

Denigrating Schumacher only denigrates the achievements of those who manage to beat him too.

[shiny side up!]

I am afraid to say I think somebody is out in left field here...

Frank's feelings are probably echoed by many many TGF and Ferrari fans, as well as those of Rubens, any other driver, and F1 in general.

Think about it... imagine your favorite driver, on your favorite racetrack, on a Sunday afternoon. Would you rather watch him disappear into the distance as the rest of the field battles for second, or would you rather see him racing wheel to wheel for position? Myself, I would rather see a hard-fought battle than a run-away...

Now let's think about TGF. He runs away most of the time, indicative of him being just plain faster than the rest. You can't call it luck if you have any sense. You could be a conspiracy theorist and say Ferrari don't give the #2 a good car, but that wouldn't explain his success prior to Ferrari, would it? When it comes down to it, he is just superior on most days.

But then there are the days when his teammate is close to him, or even beating him! Those days are relatively few and far between, but they have happened. A true fan would want to see the race won by whoever was deserving on that given day... which Ferrari currently doesn't allow to happen. That is a shame, as Frank said. But to say that because of the occaisional team order issued to MS's benefit you would never rate him... well, I had better stop now before I get myself in trouble. At any rate, it's an assinine bit of logic at best, considering the 95% of the other times TGF kicks the out of everybody. What it says about his or Ferrari's character or sportsman/showmanship is possibly another thing altogether, but on talent, nobody else comes close right now.



PS... the last sentence of KB's post above is pure gold...

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by shiny side up!


PS... the last sentence of KB's post above is pure gold...

I try.

Make mine a vodka rather than beer though

[Teretonga]

There is something happening this season that is different than past seasons.
RB gave TGF a run for his money last season but this year is nowhere near that competitive to date. Kimi was touted as the coming man but the McLaren nosedived on take off and the team has been using a vehicle cobbled together from the bits ever since.

Williams were the next in line as opposition but their attack has been blunted by a seeming lack of technical progress (or waywardness) and Renault have lacked the power on the fast circuits although the car handles magnificently.

Alonso was the coming wonderman last year but this year has been overshaowed by a team mate some were suggesting last year was never going to amount to anything.
It is as though there is some sort of 'invincibility aura' surrounding Micheal and as soon as anyone gets close to him, (like some sort of box jellyfish), they get stung which then throws them into some sort of technical confusion or depression.

It affects the teams and the drivers and meanwhile TGF steams on in his usual manner, effusing some sort of understated dominance while everyone else looks as though they have been paralysed into confusion.

It is as though Micheal has something going for him which has nothing to do with either techical superiority, a better team, or just simply being a better driver.

[Kicking-back]

Michael is able to drive in a much more relaxed frame of mind, because he's the only driver in the field with nothing left to prove or achieve.

That in itself makes a massive difference.

[KaiserSose]

It is sure funny how you Schumacher fans have avoided commenting on this quote by Frank Williams.

What's funny is that Frank has the time to worry about another teams' drivers.

Hey, Frank.........get a better car built and then maybe one of your drivers can challenge Schumacher for a win.

[Wrex]

Dont get into Frank, this was a vague (I may even suggest 'made-up') quote from a 'once a month' troll.

K-B, feel free to ignore Tye and his bait. A quick check of his posting history will show his motive.

I have only ever heard FW speak in admiration about Michael, and why would'nt he. FW is the type of man that even if he thought it, he would'nt say it - far too much class.


Michael will always have his critics, just as Senna, Prost anyone else worthy does. And like all of them, some of that critism is justified.

[KaiserSose]

Agreed.

[Dan Fielden]

Originally posted by slicktoast
Anybody else notice that RB said he had a suspension problem so he drove close by the pit wall for the crew to have a look before the SC came in. Then when he did make his pit stop later, it was routine and no crew member bothered to even look at at the rear suspension. Nice try RB, but your post race demeaner said more. The driver/car combo just didn't have it at Monaco. Third was inherited because of the antics in the tunnel of love. Maybe this weekend...

I don't understand what did he do???
I'm not defending him i must of missed that bit can you explain what he did or what he was trying to achieve

[Tye]

Originally posted by Wrex
Dont get into Frank, this was a vague (I may even suggest 'made-up') quote from a 'once a month' troll.

K-B, feel free to ignore Tye and his bait. A quick check of his posting history will show his motive.

I have only ever heard FW speak in admiration about Michael, and why would'nt he. FW is the type of man that even if he thought it, he would'nt say it - far too much class.


Michael will always have his critics, just as Senna, Prost anyone else worthy does. And like all of them, some of that critism is justified.

I can see that you have to resort to calling me names in order to make your point. Quite classless to say the least.

The quote by Frank Williams regarding the situation at Ferrari has been published in one of the racing magazines and is on the itv-f1.com website. Open your eyes and go take a look! It shoudn't be too difficult to do. It doesn't matter in the least if you think that Frank wouldn't make such a statement, he has and that is all there is to it. Prost has made very similar observations in the past as have many others.

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after you've read the article. This should be good.

Tye

[Gt_R]

Wrex, i agree that it's quite pointless to reply to obvious taunts and those "beat around the bush" attacks on MS and his fans

I'd just give my take on it.

Frank's comment are very much echoed by some other drivers/teams. And pardon me for being sceptical, with all due respects, such comments are "well timed" and carry a motive. Recently, Ferrari had done NOTHING regarding team orders nor did they do anything that forbid Rubens from challenging... YET such comments surface... Why?

A look at the facts is that Ferrari is doing brilliantly well, while making the other teams look completely incompetent. It's embarrassing for teams like Mclaren/Williams to find a convincing excuse as to why not only they can't beat Ferrari, they even struggle to fight BAR/Sauber. A well placed comment could easily shift the focus AWAY from the team's poor performance, and but some negative spotlight onto your main rivals, while at the same time hopefully succeed in destabilising the rival team. How would Frank and Ron rejoice if Rubens start to have a war of words and start taking MS out?

Also, IF F1 would be interesting as Mr Frank Williams had suggested, then perhaps from next race onwards, we shall just have 2 Ferraris attend every race, the other teams can just shut themselves in the garage. I mean, isn't 2 battling Ferraris enough? It's pretty much irresponsible to say that Ferrari had to do this, this, this and this, when other teams simply fail to do their part - provide competition to the best team.

Frank's statement is one which i agree with, that both drivers be allowed to fight it out, in every team. But once again, there is absolutely NO evidence that Rubens is not allowed to challenge this year, and every evidence to show that Rubens is not capable enough to challenge MS for the WDC. And once again, i ask of the critics - show us facts/evidence or at least some convincing reasoning..not just letting the mouth loose... Many MS-fans had asked for the evidence from those well informed and brilliant critics, only to see none.

I've all respect for Frank and the way he run his team. Similarly, i respect Ron and Flavio etc etc, and it would be decent if they show similar respect to fellow teams in the way others run theirs. Frank may know a lot about F1, i don't doubt that, but regarding the internals of Ferrari operations, i doubt he's that well placed to make a fair judgement.

[Glen]

Originally posted by Tye
I can see that you have to resort to calling me names in order to make your point. Quite classless to say the least.

Not that it makes the slightest difference, tye, but wrex didn't call you any names. He described your posts as "bait", which is not calling you anything at all.

[Gt_R]

On the otherhand...calling others "classless"..

Com'on, keep it friendly. It irritates when people try converting threads into a clash of fans battle ground. From history, MS fans don't usually start arguments regarding MS-issues without being triggered. A little sensitivity (or a little less OVER-sensitivity) would do us all a whole lot of good

[Glen]

Don't spoil it Gt_R - lets have a good old Friday slagging match to pass the time 'til practice this evening!

[Gt_R]

Talking of which..dammnit i'd miss qualifyings tomorrow!!!

But at least..i can catch the race live...*phew*



Potentially we may see a good race this weekend!

[Tye]

Originally posted by Glen
Not that it makes the slightest difference, tye, but wrex didn't call you any names. He described your posts as "bait", which is not calling you anything at all.

If you took the time to read and understand Wrex's post he stated that the person who posted the post was a (read carefully now Glen) ' once a month troll' ,that would constitute name calling, wouldn't you think . I hope this isn't hard for you to figure out?

Come on Wrexie, aren't you going to respond to Sir Frank's comments on Michael?

I had to smile today because the commentators on Speedtv stated that the Ferrari drivers were actually going to race one another at the US GP this weekend. This question has been asked for the past few seasons. I wonder why?

Tye