Why did Button get an F1 drive?

[Testure]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Do you call this 'nothing'?:

• Qualifying third in his first ever visit to Spa (the hardest circuit of them all)
• Becoming the youngest-ever point-scorer in F1 history
• Running Ralf close in the championship as a rookie
• Qualifying 6th for only his 4th race despite the pressure of running at home
• Demolishing trulli in 2002 despite no support form the team
• Hounding a former World Champion into retirement

Fair point about Montoya though - I agree that he's quite a talent.

I kinda hate replying here, because I don't want it to look like I'm bashing Jenson who is now quite obviously one of the better drivers in F1. Nevertheless...

Yes, he had a good first year! He was a good driver, in a good car, with a good team; how could we expect anything other than a good run at his team mate? This is Formula 1 - if a driver takes 10 laps to learn a circuit then they don't belong on the grid.

"Demolishing Trulli"?!?! You've gotta be kidding. Jarno finished less than half the races that season! If I'm remembering correctly, Jarno had 7 or 8 mechanical retirements that year, while Jenson had 1 or 2. Care to recall the qualifying "battle" between those two for that season? Further, of the handful of races that they both managed to finish, Jarno was more often ahead at the end.

I think that Jenson's a better driver than Jarno, but my point would be that if he had had some greater pre-F1 racing experience, he would have beaten his team-mate somewhat more convincingly. Or perhaps you were watching a different 2002 season?

"Hounding a former World Champion into retirement"? Jenson beat Jacques fair and square, for sure. My impression, however, of Jacques' performances of his last 2 years was that he just didn't give a rat's anymore. His mechanical reliability during that season was a sick joke and gave me some of the most frustrating times in however many years of watching F1 on TV. Yeah, he beat the ex-WDC, but look at how we can both put our own spin on it - it's not as clear-cut as you might like, is it?


Jenson's becoming a great driver, it would be wrong to argue otherwise. My point would be that if he had spent, say, 2000 and 2001 in another lower category, he would have hugely increased his impact in his initial 3 or 4 seasons. You would disagree?

[Tweed]

that may be true, but what would he have done after British F3 in 1999? If he'd stayed on with Promatecme he would have been expected to waltz to the title ( would have been a BRILLIANT year; Button, Pizzonia, Scheckter, Sato ), F3000 could have damaged his career.

His rise from karts to Fford then F3 was extremely fast, perhaps to then go to F1 was on his 'curve', if you know what I mean

[esorniloc]

Originally posted by Tweed
that may be true, but what would he have done after British F3 in 1999? If he'd stayed on with Promatecme he would have been expected to waltz to the title

I doubt that Jenson would have had a shot at the title, that year the engine was outclassed and the two Promatecme drivers were no-where in the standings!

After Button had become the youngest ever pts scorer in 2000, I was sure that he would break Bruce McLaren's record of being the youngest ever race winner, yet in the 2 plus years he had to do this, he never got close. (Record has now gone to Alonso.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally posted by esorniloc
I doubt that Jenson would have had a shot at the title, that year the engine was outclassed and the two Promatecme drivers were no-where in the standings!

I think part of Tweed's point was that staying in F3 and not winning the title would've been very damaging - people on the otuside wouldn't've udnerstood why he struggled. And lots of promising guys have fell apart in F3000, sometimes never recovering.

As a result, I'm not sure 'greater pre-F1 experience' is the issue. Let's imagine if he'd've won UK F3 in 2000 (unlikely, as I say) then had a promising F3000 rookie year in 2001 (not a certainty by any means). He'd've been entering F1 in a team where he lacked support, expected to be on podium pace quickly, without his previous knowledge from 2 years in F1 and 1 year in the team.

[Rennen]

Britain needed a new hero to step into the old James Hunt, Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill boots...Jenson had been groomed for stardom...packaged with a snappy memorable name...and was "Fast Tracked" the moment he won the 1997 F1A European Formula Super A kart championship...Good management saw him steered through a winning rookie season of Formula Ford, British Champion...Festival World Cup Winner...BRDC/McLaren/Autosport Young Driver of the Year...On pole for his first ever F3 race...several wins...3rd in the British F3 camps...smart clued on dad who steered his career...did everything the British racing media wanted to boost their circulation...big flashing smile...charmed Sir Fw & DR out of the trees...podiums followed like honey...It's all about packaging...being good...well managed...and being in the right place at the right time...that's life...good luck to him...

[Kicking-back]

True, Rennen, but talent helped too.

[Rennen]

Err...that's what I meant by..."Being good"!...you thought I meant eating up all his supper?

[pirenzo]

Originally posted by Dani Filth
the fact that he was british also counted

I really don't think Frank Williams and Patrick Head could honestly give a toss about national pride when it comes to drivers. I seem to remember though that most of the time Jenson was just plain faster than Bruno, and I've also heard that Bruno is something of a whinger which Frank would certainly never put up with, hence them getting fed up with Ralf right now, and getting tired of Mansell and Hill in the past...

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Rennen
Err...that's what I meant by..."Being good"!...you thought I meant eating up all his supper?

Sorry - missed that bit.

Apologies.

[Snrub]

I have to be honest, I cringe at any and all discussion in the F1 forum of CART or any US based series. Most of you guys just flat out don't get it or don't want to get it. For instance was PT clearly the best CART driver in 2003 and everyone disparages the series, but it's quickly forgotten that the car parity brings up the level of compeition. There were a group of good F1 caliber drivers or nearly F1 caliber, but yes there was some field filler. You guys are also very result driven, there's no sense of "how did they actually perform during the course of a race?" I see the same rational here as I do when someone starts succeeding in F1 because of their car. Where are all the Kimi boosters this year? Everyone's on the Button bandwagon because he's got the 2nd best car and his teammate isn't as good as him so he looks good.