[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[S griffin]

Maybe a hark back to the good old days when they had the 2 driver races in the Group A era, especially if it's a chance for some famous guest driver to turn up

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Maybe a hark back to the good old days when they had the 2 driver races in the Group A era, especially if it's a chance for some famous guest driver to turn up

Or to do like Chris Hodgetts & Tiff Needell tried to do and co-drive both cars!

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by redshoes

That answers the question of why you would want to run 2 drivers, but doesn't answer the question of why you would want a longer race in the first place, which I think was Matt's point.

As a one-off, it'd be something different and interesting to promote. Honestly, it probably doesn't appeal to the average BTCC viewer, but there are others who'd love the idea, and seeing different (potentially) high-level drivers against BTCC stars.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Evantra

As a one-off, it'd be something different and interesting to promote. Honestly, it probably doesn't appeal to the average BTCC viewer, but there are others who'd love the idea, and seeing different (potentially) high-level drivers against BTCC stars.

I do agree that this *might* be what *we* would like to see, but is still boils down to the facts that firstly the cars have to be capable of doing it (fuel capacity/hybrid duration etc.), and secondly, to attract the extra superstar drivers is going to need *someone* to pay for them.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I do agree that this *might* be what *we* would like to see, but is still boils down to the facts that firstly the cars have to be capable of doing it (fuel capacity/hybrid duration etc.), and secondly, to attract the extra superstar drivers is going to need *someone* to pay for them.

Imagine a 90 minute race and everyone runs out of fuel before the end

Presumably, as not to inflate costs, as the running is longer than the usual 3 races combined, it'd take the place of one of the usual 10 Sundays rather than as an extra round

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by antnee

What type of filler do the cars have?

Remember they did around 45 mins racing for the Diamond race in 2018, so potentially only 1 refill required. Setting a minimum pitstop time would take away any requirement for specialist equipment to complete a stop too.

How is the fuel got into the tank now? I don't see any fillers on the outside of the car

[porsche962fan]

I rather have a round on the mainland for once, how come British GT could afford it and BTCC doesn't ?

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I rather have a round on the mainland for once, how come British GT could afford it and BTCC doesn't ?

BGT does it as a support race to something much bigger.
BTCC is always the biggest thing on its bill.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

How is the fuel got into the tank now? I don't see any fillers on the outside of the car

From the pictures I've seen of NGTC cars looks like they fill directly into the top of the fuel cell from inside the car.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by sceptic

BGT does it as a support race to something much bigger.
BTCC is always the biggest thing on its bill.

BGT's traditional round in Spa has the British GT cars as the main event; it's been the beginning of the European SRO "Speed Week" which ends with the 24 Hours of Spa. Next year, however, they're going to Portimao instead - but I expect they'll still be the main attraction.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I rather have a round on the mainland for once, how come British GT could afford it and BTCC doesn't ?

It's not a question of 'afford', it's a question of 'want to'. The typical British GT driver/sponsor is very different from the typical BTCC driver/sponsor. The appeal for a foreign race for a gentleman GT driver is not the same as for a BTCC sponsor.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by redshoes

It's not a question of 'afford', it's a question of 'want to'. The typical British GT driver/sponsor is very different from the typical BTCC driver/sponsor. The appeal for a foreign race for a gentleman GT driver is not the same as for a BTCC sponsor.

how come the german STW had nearly half the rounds outside of germany (austria, belgium, holland) while BTCC was still confined to UK ?
the STW had not as much works teams as BTCC (but the exisitng works team entered more cars 4 to 6 ) but much larger grids due to the many many privateer drivers

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how come the german STW had nearly half the rounds outside of germany (austria, belgium, holland) while BTCC was still confined to UK ?
the STW had not as much works teams as BTCC (but the exisitng works team entered more cars 4 to 6 ) but much larger grids due to the many many privateer drivers

The fact it hasn't existed for 20+ years tells you your answer!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how come the german STW had nearly half the rounds outside of germany (austria, belgium, holland) while BTCC was still confined to UK ?

Because the STW was not the BTCC, and the BTCC was not the STW. You aren't comparing like with like.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how come the german STW had nearly half the rounds outside of germany (austria, belgium, holland) while BTCC was still confined to UK ?
the STW had not as much works teams as BTCC (but the exisitng works team entered more cars 4 to 6 ) but much larger grids due to the many many privateer drivers

To be fair, it's comparing apples with pairs. National championships are normally only permitted one round outside of their own country. However, this did not apply to German championships in the 1990s. This was due to the lack of permanent circuits in Germany at the time. A quick look at the STW calendar reveals quite a few long disbanded temporary circuits. This option was never available to the BTCC.

Secondly, there is a question of economics. The STW typically went to places like Assen and Zolder. These are pretty close to Germany and can be reached relatively easily and quickly. A BTCC round at, say, Assen would cist BTCC team a lot more than their German counterparts.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

I rather have a round on the mainland for once, how come British GT could afford it and BTCC doesn't ?

BTCC won’t even come to Mondello so I doubt there is much appetite to go to Europe - and then you Brits have to consider Brexit and the hidden costs of racing overseas - as can been seen by the number of European series that now don’t race in UK.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

BTCC won’t even come to Mondello so I doubt there is much appetite to go to Europe - and then you Brits have to consider Brexit and the hidden costs of racing overseas - as can been seen by the number of European series that now don’t race in UK.

Everything you say here is absolutely true.

For some reason, the BTCC of today is being compared to a series from nearly 30 years ago, with full manufacturer backing, on continental mainland, inside a free trade economic zone that only lasted for 6 seasons.

But apparently, that's a good model to aspire to?

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Everything you say here is absolutely true.

For some reason, the BTCC of today is being compared to a series from nearly 30 years ago, with full manufacturer backing, on continental mainland, inside a free trade economic zone that only lasted for 6 seasons.

err , wasn't UK in said free economic zone ??

and the STW continued starting with 2000 as the DTM with Audi and Opel moved into it complete with some teams and drivers and even the DTM after 2000 has some rounds outside of Germany , for example in 2002 they held a 3 outside races, DONINGTON, A1 Ring and Zandvoort

so that DTM could afford to come to Donington yet BTCC is incapable to go outside for once

[porsche962fan]

and heck not long ago there was talk about BTCC doing a Macau race back in 2015 but that didn't happen , even if the organizers offered to pay for the shipping

https://www.autosport.com/btcc/news/...07902/5007902/

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

err , wasn't UK in said free economic zone ??

and the STW continued starting with 2000 as the DTM with Audi and Opel moved into it complete with some teams and drivers and even the DTM after 2000 has some rounds outside of Germany , for example in 2002 they held a 3 outside races, DONINGTON, A1 Ring and Zandvoort

so that DTM could afford to come to Donington yet BTCC is incapable to go outside for once

The DTM was blooming massive! I went in 2002 and the hospitality budgets would probably have funded most of the BTCC grid this year. Not a fair comparison.

[peebee2]

DTM and BTCC is like comparing F1 with FF1600.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how come British GT could afford it and BTCC doesn't ?

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

how come the german STW had nearly half the rounds outside of germany

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

so that DTM could afford to come to Donington yet BTCC is incapable to go outside for once

So you've gone from British GT, to STW, to DTM, in a desperate bid to make a point. It's almost as if you are deliberately trying to be contrary

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

err , wasn't UK in said free economic zone ??

Yes - at the time of STW.

For reference though - this is the BTCC 2023 thread. You are comparing BTCC of 2023's aspirations with a totally different time and context of the global touring car market of the last century.

Now if you are genuinely suggesting that races outside of the UK would be a something that BTCC should look to in the future, maybe that is best placed in the 'improve product' thread here? - https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157247 - where I would look forward to seeing how you would propose to solve the associated issues of expense, marketing, drivers off-track schedules and customs / border movements.

[S griffin]

Apart from the non championship race in Dubai in 1981, the BTCC has always been in the British Isles only and it will remain that way

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Apart from the non championship race in Dubai in 1981, the BTCC has always been in the British Isles only and it will remain that way

True.

And the fact that we already know the calendar for 2023 makes discussions about racing elsewhere a moot point I think?

Future consideration maybe, but for 2023 that ship has sailed.