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Old 31 May 2023, 21:42 (Ref:4159031)   #151
chunterer
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Originally Posted by pimmy View Post
I think the discrepancy comes from the last race of the season at Silverstone. Brodie won on the road but was disqualified. Kennedy finished 6th and was promoted to 5th, so maybe sources giving him 9 points haven't taken this into account?
That's a great shout!
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Old 21 Aug 2023, 16:23 (Ref:4173564)   #152
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Got to be worth mentioning again just how well engineered that Datsun/Nissan Bluebird was as well. The mind really boggles as what that car could have achieved with some proper factory money and support behind it. Graham and his team must've worked miracles to get that car running so strongly, particulary later in the season and on into 1985.
Back in the day, when these threads concerning various group A series and years, the advantage of the FIA historic homologation forms weren't available, but makes for some interesting insights. Like Graham Goode's Bluebird.

A5197 Nissan Bluebird Turbo, P910
https://historicdb.fia.com/car/nissa...bo-p-910-17704

Homologated on 1 February 1984 makes the car legal for the start of the season, but then look on page 22. The 2 door coupé that Goode raced, was only homologated, as a variation, on 1 July 1984 - at a time when the car had already raced in six rounds! Then on 1 July 1985 the intercooler was added.
Was Goode racing the coupé version in the early races with an exception and there seems to have been some confusion as to weather intercoolers had to be homologated or not, just as long as the road car was fitted with said item. Mitsubishi seemed to be late on that matter as well.

A5113 Mitsubishi Starion 2000 Turbo A183A
https://historicdb.fia.com/car/mitsu...bo-a183a-19975

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Old 22 Aug 2023, 18:31 (Ref:4173682)   #153
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Since these pages about the group A era of various touring car races and series was started, the FIA has made historic homologation forms available. Here I have chosen what I find to be one of the more controversial cars of the British group A era; the Graham Goode Nissan Bluebird Turbo.

FIA A5197 – Nissan Bluebird Turbo, P910
https://historicdb.fia.com/car/nissa...bo-p-910-17704

Allowed from 1 January 1984, so alright it was homologated before the start of the season. But then go to pages 22 and 23, and it is revealed that the 2 door coupé version that Goode raced was only homologated from 1 July 1984. By then Goode had raced the Bluebird in the first six rounds of the BSCC.
It takes to page 28 before the intercooler are mentioned – homologated by 1 July 1985!

If I read this correct it would mean that it was only 1½ year into it's life that the Goode Bluebird should have been competitive in class B. What was going on?

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Old 23 Aug 2023, 12:40 (Ref:4173745)   #154
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The two previous posts were supposed to be one, just to explain the overlap of content!

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Old 24 Aug 2023, 06:42 (Ref:4173795)   #155
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Originally Posted by JesperOH View Post
Back in the day, when these threads concerning various group A series and years, the advantage of the FIA historic homologation forms weren't available, but makes for some interesting insights. Like Graham Goode's Bluebird.

A5197 Nissan Bluebird Turbo, P910
https://historicdb.fia.com/car/nissa...bo-p-910-17704

Homologated on 1 February 1984 makes the car legal for the start of the season, but then look on page 22. The 2 door coupé that Goode raced, was only homologated, as a variation, on 1 July 1984 - at a time when the car had already raced in six rounds! Then on 1 July 1985 the intercooler was added.
Was Goode racing the coupé version in the early races with an exception and there seems to have been some confusion as to weather intercoolers had to be homologated or not, just as long as the road car was fitted with said item. Mitsubishi seemed to be late on that matter as well.

A5113 Mitsubishi Starion 2000 Turbo A183A
https://historicdb.fia.com/car/mitsu...bo-a183a-19975

Jesper
Turbocharged cars were a very new thing in the BTCC (or BSCC) at this time, there were only the Merkur, Metro Turbo and Bluebird. As far as I can remember (and this was a long time ago now), regarding intercoolers, if the car was fitted with one as standard you were allowed to fit any sort (and size) of intercooler to a Group A car, this was tightened up on significantly later where the standard production item HAD to be used.
Manufacturers were asked simply "is the air from the turbo cooled between the turbo & the engine? Yes or No?" Both the Merkur and Metro turbo fed directly from the turbo to the engine, but this included a finned aluminium section of pipe, so Ford and British Leyland ticked 'yes' as their homologation engineers were aware of the benefits. Datsun were typically more honourable and decided not to play the game.
Graham (along with a number of other people) was unaware of this, so ran the car with an intercooler, but one of the competitors in his class lodged a protest at the end of the season and subsequently lost his points and the championship class win.
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Old 24 Aug 2023, 06:52 (Ref:4173798)   #156
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Thanks for the background info VIVA very interesting to learn a bit more about some of the technical aspects of my favourite period of the series.
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Old 25 Aug 2023, 15:42 (Ref:4173926)   #157
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Thank you VIVA GT, for the clarification on recognition of the use of intercoolers on turbo cars in Britain. I was quite sure that Volvo did their homework when homologating their evolution during 1983, but can't find the word intercooler anywhere in homologation form A5020, as the regular 240 Turbo road car didn't have an intercooler, as far as I know:

https://historicdb.fia.com/car/volvo-240-turbo-2127

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Old 26 Aug 2023, 00:51 (Ref:4173979)   #158
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Thank you for clarifying the intercooler issue, VIVA GT. I've heard it before, and by 1984 there were surprisingly few group A turbo cars around. The Volvo 240 Turbo was one, and I was quite sure that Volvo did homologate an intercooler when they did their evo in 1983, but can't find the evidence. But since the 240 (FIA A5020) aren't relevant to this thread I will leave it to rest for now.

The newly established Australian arm of Mitsubishi Ralliart entered a Starion Turbo for the 1984 James Hardie 1000 at Bathurst. Perhaps optimisticly they build the car to the expected 1985 specifications, but the governing body CAMS followed the written FIA group A regulations. The team went to tremendously trouble rebuilding the car to 1983 spec, including deleting the intercooler, before being allowed to race on sunday. This is to the best of my memory of having re-read the '84 Bathurst bible recently.

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Old 26 Aug 2023, 16:02 (Ref:4174046)   #159
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Hi Jesper. Homologation form you mention is https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...20_group_a.pdf did not find any evidence of intercooler as you say. Water injection was homologated through extension 09/01 ET valid from 1 Sept '83 together with a new turbo (water injection specific tank capacity 30 litres). What is puzzling is that several extensions have been canceled over the years. May be the intercooler was part of country specific market (like the 530 Bimmer, ius version)? Much later, some japanese homologations showed that the lesson was learned, the intercooler being water sprayed (page 8, extension02/01 WR) https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...52_group_a.pdf
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Old 27 Dec 2023, 19:44 (Ref:4190033)   #160
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Hello,


I have a question about Rob Hall active in the series in 1983-84. Is it the same Rob Hall from current historic races? That would make him 18-19 years old if he raced in BSCC in the 80s?
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Old 6 Jan 2024, 15:11 (Ref:4190939)   #161
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Watching him (on TV) during the '23 Goodwood Festival, driving the BRM V16, I was asking myself the same question. I came to the conclusion, that yes, it could indeed be the very same person. If he is in his 60s, around 70, he would have been in his 20s in 1984.

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