Steel Cranks for FF1600

[blue nose]

Who would be in favour of changing the rule on crankshafts to allow the use of a much stronger steel item.
This would prolong the life of our engines as we all know when a crank breaks the engine is scrap.This has been done in the USA for years now so it is about time we had the chance to preserve our engines.

[diz]

This poll may as well be closed Alan. You won't get engine regs changed, as big God Ford Motor Company make all the decisions of a technical nature.

[mattray]

Anything that prolongs the life of the engine and saves us all money cant be a bad thing!

How does it affect the top revs the engine can pull? or does it change anything else?

[mattray]

if the rules cant be changed why dont we create Formula1600 and keep the regs exactly the same but change the crank rule and the crank rule only? I know people will use it as an oportunity to get in all sorts of other selfishly beneficial rule changes but their evil ways can be stopped cant they?

[StephenRae]

This controvercy has continued to my knowledge for over 25 years. I am told that when Ford resumed making cranks fairly recently a commercial decision was made not to upgrade the quality of the steel.
Diz is correct Ford would never condone a regulation change, but we could at a local level, just by inserting the words 'crankshaft material free, but to standard dimensions.' The camshaft regs could be ammended in the same way while we were at it! The downside would come when competing in other races.
Don't they run aluminium heads in America?

[Redracer77]

I think we should change. We have to vote in numbers though

[blue nose]

The alloy heads are an option in the States and they cost £3000.The gain from a steel crank is only marginal.

[GolddustMini]

a) fords wouldnt want a reg change, they've just made a batch of new cranks so want to sell them, they also wouldnt want a third party machining company to take the profit away from them

b)it wont give you any rev advantage, the limit is the cam and valve gear (hence why valves hit pistons when you over rev the engine, not the crank snapping.#

c) a steel crank would cost alot more than the standard one (and alot of people seem to complain about the cost of these) its like getting water out of a stone :P now alot of people (this isnt blanketing u all, its just an observation) dont seem to understand the concept of an oil pressure guage and just think the orange warning light means "ah keep going it'll be reet" and not, "pull over before you have to wave your cheque book". this leads to quite a few nackered cranks because of people running bearings and damaging the crank. and then theres the same problem broken crank and now a £2k bill for the replacement......


im not saying a steel crank would be a bad idea, however you've got to look further than the initial "it wouldnt crack so often" arguement (although alot of this is down to the flywheel hitting the ground on full bump...), plus the fact that ford controls the regs and its hardly in there best interests to change them...

[sprocket]

Which Ford controls the Regs ?? USA or GB/EUROPE.
If they do it across the pond,why not here ?
Or is it a case of 1 rule for uncle Sam,and another for the rest!!

[blue nose]

Why should Ford dictate to us when they have no involment in FF1600,If we implimented the rule change ourselves what could they do withdraw their suport....hold on what is it they do for us again? Nothing at all.

[mattray]

Exactly! Formula 1600! sounds like a plan! how about using the clubff1600 website to get support! I am going to be going to all of the next round races for MIdlands, Combe and NW and handing out Free Clubff1600.co.uk stickers so everyone will be aware of the site. Then if we have a poll on that (maybe Ian Sowman can collect the results?) and see what we can do! we have enough competitors to make a decision we just dont have any collaboration if you know what I mean!

[darcym]

Be interesting to see what the costs the Goldminidust suggests, eg no use a better crank lasting eg: 2 seasons but being 3 times the price of a 1 seasons crank.

[Ian Sowman]

Matt R, if there was such a big issue it would have come out in the clubff1600 survey at Combe, the results of which will soon to be published. As far as I'm aware though, no-one mentioned it. I'll try to gather some opinion at meetings over the next few weeks, with the help of Matt Beer.

[blue nose]

I know they cost around 6-7 hundred quid but they do last for years and they will not break so it sounds good to me.

[diz]

Alter Ego : "Go on Diz, get your stirring implement out"

"No, I better hadn't"

Alter Ego : "Do it, nobody reads this drivel anyway"

"Well, if you think it would be OK, I'll think about it"

Alter Ego : "That's my boy - go for it"

"Oh go on then, here goes. Why not keep the technical regs as they are, but change the power plant?"

Alter Ego : "What to smarty pants? It's been Formula Ford for 37 years"

"Maybe, but that is because it used the old Kent engines. Apparently the cranks are a weak point don't you know."

Alter Ego : "So what do you suggest?"

"How about a sealed, more powerful and bulletproof lump from the East"

Alter Ego : "Where, Scarborough?"

"No further east where the people have an oriental look".

Alter Ego :"How about Toyota"

"Exactly young man. It would be worth looking into. We could call it Formula Toyota"

Alter Ego : Does Boldy do Toyota stuff?"

Not yet.

[darcym]

a fair point diz but assuming a brand spanking new ff1600 unit costs 4-5k, and everyone was to turn to say a toyota engine even if that was a cheaper at say 3K its a fair ammount of cash to stump up for everyone who wants to race next year, its not like £1000 for a rebuild where you can chance running without it, its pay 3K ontop of your normal budget or you don't race again.

It would be a longer term saving for everyone, but tough to find the extra cash for everyone.

[Ian Sowman]

You'd need it to be a gradual switch, with two engines running concurrently (not in the same car for any pedants in the forum). Like 750 Formula have done.

[diz]

The figure I heard bandied about for a useful Toyota lump - before manufacturer support is even mentioned - is £600.00

[blue nose]

Stick to Kents look what happened when a Zetec lump was put in the back....Were are they now.

[darcym]

£600 for a new engine thats different from 4K !!!

would they fit in the chassis ???

in an ideal world this sounds great, however its a tough deal to change, and the grass is always greener.

great topic though. Be interesting to hear what the engine builders think

[GolddustMini]

yeh sounds great until u consider the installation costs, to make it fit in the chassis
£600 for the engine wont include...


the ECU
the wiring harness (would need to be custom, who needs all them extra bits like air con in a race car (apart from bluenose obviously)
probably most of the intake system (throttle bodies etc or carbs if u convert to carb setup)
any mods required to link it to the LD200 or gearbox thats in use...
drysump system


not to mention the fact that the toyota unit is more than likely transverse so modifications would need to be made to alter it to for aft fitment.


hows about we all look further than the edge of our chequebooks

[darcym]

That was my point of interest.

[GolddustMini]

i got a great idea!!!!!



hows about we stick zetec engines in the back (the 1800cc lump looks good) we put slick tyres on them, widen the track, put a few extra deformable safety structures on them, then we can have a national championship and everything!


im sure slick 50 would be up for a bit of sponsorship and mebe you could get touring car support...

then we can kick back and share a few bevvys

[blue nose]

Good Idea there must be shed loads of Zetec spares for us around the country going cheap that nobody wants.....

[jadlamracing]

What about zetec engines,ABC10,alloy wheels & calipers ?