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View Poll Results: Should Ron Have Signed Tommy Byrne?
Yes 4 16.00%
No 21 84.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 28 Jan 2018, 19:24 (Ref:3796472)   #16
Tim 27
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Originally Posted by Razzzor View Post
His stats don't look too great to me. Spent 7 years in Indy Lights and never won the title. Didn't even win a race the last 2 years, although they were par time. 2 years in F3 with just 1 win. Sounds like most of his "greatness" comes from his own mouth.
I think it's unfair to judge his career only after his move to the States.
The "legend" was born during his early years in England.

RAC and P&O FF1600 titles 1980 (Ayrton the year after)
British FF2000 Champion 1981 (Ayrton the year after)
Formula Ford Festival winner 1981 (After Ayrton vacated the seat and turned his back on racing after his wife's ultimatum)
European FF2000 Champion 1981 (Ayrton the year after)
British F3 Champion 1982 (Ayrton the year after)
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 19:56 (Ref:3796477)   #17
peebee2
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And he didn’t win just one F3 race either...
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Old 28 Jan 2018, 20:50 (Ref:3796492)   #18
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My interest in motor racing wasn't rekindled until about 1984, so Byrne didn't figure on my radar as such. When I watched the documentary, I was intrigued by the character. He was clearly very very good and had the talent to get to the top, but although I felt sympathy for a man who ought to have made it, I also felt almost angry at the very obvious chip on his shoulder about the likes of Ayrton and the monied Brazilians and the decisions that Tommy made. It certainly seemed as though he missed out really badly on sensible advice and guidance and that he couldn't recognise that his 'booze and birds' lifestyle was actually doing his career considerable harm. I ended up thinking, 'What a waste'.....
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Old 30 Jan 2018, 15:26 (Ref:3796925)   #19
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And he didnít win just one F3 race either...
Hmmm, neither did Johnny Dumfries, although he didn't have such a stellar CV as Byrne up to that point it must be said!

Perhaps there are parallels between Tommy and Jan Magnussen in terms of their huge talents compared to their character and outlook?
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 04:26 (Ref:3797059)   #20
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Why can't we see which way people voted?
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 06:54 (Ref:3797085)   #21
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I guess it's the way the poll has been set up, we can only see the result.
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 07:53 (Ref:3797106)   #22
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Samoan Attorney should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSamoan Attorney should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSamoan Attorney should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Tommy Byrne came up as a topic on another forum, yes there is life beyond Ten-Tenths, not much I grant you. This is a post I made at the time.



Q. Did DSJ ever write about Tommy Byrne? I just finished Tommy's autobiography last night and found myself wondering that.

My reply......

A bit of late night fiction is always good for sleep.



DSJ From the German Grand Prix



"Jan Lammers had been moved out of the Theodore Team and Tommy Byrne had been brought out of the Formula 3 school to replace him though the reason was a bit obscure............"



DSJ had this to say from The Austrian Grand Prix.



"Tommy Byrne just scraped onto the grid with the original Theodore TY02, but hardly justified his replacement of Jan Lammers."



"By lap 11 Patrese had already caught and lapped Tommy Byrne, which gives some idea of the discrepancy between the fastest and the slowest............"



TB barely warranted a mention at either the Swiss or Italian Grand Prix but at Las Vegas DSJ gave an insight to his thoughts on the Irishman.


"First reserve was the little Irishman Tommy Byrne in the Theodore, so by Jarier's bad luck he was lucky to start in the race. When Byrne arrived on the Formula One scene at mid-season he was rather confident, not to say cocky, and was quoted as saying that famous names did not interest him, as long as they did not get in his way! When he did actually qualify for a race the only time he saw some of them was when they lapped him and at Las Vegas he spun off while trying to keep out of the way of some of the famous names that were lapping him!"

No further comment needed from DSJ..

I was at a dinner last week sitting with a veteran Autosport journalist, we had witnessed Byrne in F3 during 1982. We both agreed that despite his claims he would not have coped with Martin Brundle let alone Ayrton...........but what would we know?
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 07:59 (Ref:3797110)   #23
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my point exactly......nobody likes a smart-ar5e......TB was a portaloo and full of it.......yes he was fast, but he did not posses the set-up skills to fix a slow car, work with the engineers and cure basic handling problems like low or high speed under or oversteer, you can only drive around so many problems, then you are driving a boat........no place for arrogant and cocky non-PR friendly drivers in F1, even in the 1980's.......not much of a discussion really.
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 13:07 (Ref:3797159)   #24
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Why can't we see which way people voted?
Sorry, I don't see where I can alter it for people to see the current voting status.

It currently stands that 11 people think Ron did the right thing, and 3 didn't.

Seems Tommy is a very Marmite character!
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 13:18 (Ref:3797163)   #25
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Perhaps there are parallels between Tommy and Jan Magnussen in terms of their huge talents compared to their character and outlook?
Agree totally, both sublime, both fully deserving of a top line Grand Prix seat, but that's where the similarity ends.
Tommy was the first to tell anyone how good he was, Jan was definitely quieter.
Where Tommy caused his own downfall, I firmly believe that JYS, having once held him in such high regard, single handedly ruined Janís future as an F1 driver. I read that in 98, Jackie took Jan (and later Jos) to Oulton Park, to show them how they should be doing it, only a mere 25 years since he himself had driven a GP car competitively..
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Old 31 Jan 2018, 14:00 (Ref:3797172)   #26
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Jan though didnít seem interested in F1. The story goes they left him in the Stewart motorhome to look at telemetry readout, and when they came back they found him playing minesweeper or solitaire! JYS did rate him as high as Senna in terms of talent, itís just he was too lazy
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Old 1 Feb 2018, 10:06 (Ref:3797406)   #27
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Agree totally, both sublime, both fully deserving of a top line Grand Prix seat, but that's where the similarity ends.
Tommy was the first to tell anyone how good he was, Jan was definitely quieter.
Where Tommy caused his own downfall, I firmly believe that JYS, having once held him in such high regard, single handedly ruined Janís future as an F1 driver. I read that in 98, Jackie took Jan (and later Jos) to Oulton Park, to show them how they should be doing it, only a mere 25 years since he himself had driven a GP car competitively..
Yeah, JYS did that with all his drivers apparently, Herbert and Rubens have mentioned it.

Makes you wonder. If he felt they were good enough to drive for him, why the need to patronise them like that? I wonder how he sold it to them???

"Nowww then Jaaan, the aim of the exercise is to drive sooooo precisely and smoooothly that the cup of water on the bonnet of the car doesn't spill"
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Old 1 Feb 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3797412)   #28
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I find it ironic that JYS used to do this too, most patronising for the drivers......in the latter years of his F1 driving, the F1 Tyrrel cars that he drove were complete boats with very short suspension wishbones that caused a very "snappy" suspension system, which absolutely required the driver to hack the steering wheel and deal with all sorts of oversteer incidents, not smooth driving at all.

Watch this on-board footage from 1973 and you will see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkq8Q26N52g


The smoothest driver ever was Jenson Button........I run my 12 year old son to a professional level in MSA karting around the UK, I have employed numerous national championship winning 1:1 driver coaches over a 4 year period to get my son as fast and as smooth as possible.......in the last year we had 16 podiums, 3 wins and won a championship.......I respect JYS, but his talk on driving does grate with me.
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Old 1 Feb 2018, 18:41 (Ref:3797534)   #29
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I think Tommy might have had some speed but in an F1 environment he would have imploded with all the responsibility involved and getting his party lifestyle under control. Him and Ron would have never worked, ever.

His only real chance would have been having a mentor/coach/agent that could have got him in order and kept it that way. Maybe after a few years of that he might have gained some maturity and perspective and got it together.

Someone mentioned that people in teams didn't like Mansell. Well most F1 drivers are not likeable people during their careers, but if they get the job done they are respected for that. What Mansell did have was a very strong mental application and self control. He had a solid family life and wasn't out every night partying till 5 AM or blowing all his money up his nose.
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Old 1 Feb 2018, 18:49 (Ref:3797535)   #30
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Yeah, JYS did that with all his drivers apparently, Herbert and Rubens have mentioned it.

Makes you wonder. If he felt they were good enough to drive for him, why the need to patronise them like that? I wonder how he sold it to them???

"Nowww then Jaaan, the aim of the exercise is to drive sooooo precisely and smoooothly that the cup of water on the bonnet of the car doesn't spill"
Well most people might not be aware that a significant portion of the current F1 grid has been through driver training with Rob Wilson using a Vauxhall road car. If you can't be precise and smooth with a road car it's only going to be exacerbated in an F1 car.

There is actually much that can be learned and to me you can never learn enough. We have coaches in every other sport and I think only in recent years have people come to understand that drivers need them as well. I think any driver that would consider coaching as patronizing is a complete moron.

I'm not a complete JYS fan but I do remember in the earlier seasons around 2005 or so, JYS taking James May around a track in a road car and by the end had shaved 20 seconds off his time.

Jan Magnussen was another who might have had a little turn of speed but never had the mental application or desire to be champion. I think he had his chances with McLaren, Stewart and in CART and he just couldn't keep it together. Again another person that would have benefited from a coach.
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