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7 Feb 2008, 20:08 (Ref:2123489) | #26 | ||
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I think they thought about something like this at some point, but dismissed it in favour of the common chassis-idea.
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7 Feb 2008, 20:29 (Ref:2123508) | #27 | ||
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I agree to 100%. The new GT2 Aston too is damn good looking and would fit perfectly as a DTM car. Why dont DTM just take the FIA-GT2 rules and run as sprint races? We would get damn good racing!
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7 Feb 2008, 20:39 (Ref:2123522) | #28 | ||
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The problem might be cost-containment. The GT2 rules are comparatively wide open, so throwing tons of money on such a project might bring some big improvements, which could in turn lead to an ultra-expensive arms race.
As of now GT2 is almost completely based on costumer-cars and the expenses for the R&D have to be recouped by the car sales, while still keeping them reasonably priced. With two manufacturers that are ready to spent a whole lot of money, it would probably soon get ugly and deterr other manufacturers from entering the series. Another problem might be, that for a good GT car, the road going counterpart has to be designed with racing already in mind, else you might end up with a less-than-perfect platform, and without a choice to compete against a better suited car... |
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7 Feb 2008, 21:40 (Ref:2123578) | #29 | ||
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The next problem is that both Mercedes and Audi don't have a suitable GT2-car. And they are so deeply embedded in the championship that no way they would be what would effectively be, thrown out of the championship. Add to that that a GT is not a touringcar, so they would have to change the name in DGM, witch doesn't sound as good and familiar....
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8 Feb 2008, 00:22 (Ref:2123710) | #30 | ||
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Easy mates, you#'re coming to the point, wherewe might say who cares about DTM? I dunno about you, but I thought about it recently and IMO Mercedes-Benz and Audi wouldn't lose much by entering Le Mans Series (Audi is there already, but with two or three more R10 from Rosberg, Abt and Phoenix + Joest doing only USA, this would be one hell of a championship with Pug's), plus Merc in GTS or GT... Man, that's not gonna happen.
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8 Feb 2008, 09:10 (Ref:2123890) | #31 | |
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What's the point in changing DTM to something different? At this rate of adoption, every racing series in Europe will be either GT2 or GT3 spec, then you'll complain it's all the same!
To me, over here on this island, VLN looks like what DTM once was with regard to the cars and privateer/manufacturer balance. |
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8 Feb 2008, 10:25 (Ref:2123942) | #32 | ||
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I think the point was not to switch with DTM to GT2 rules, but to have a ruleset for DTM, that takes some clues from GT2, especially the unibody as comapred to the tubeframes.
As for the VLN: It's more like the DRM than like DTM: Porsche domination in the fastest class and then a bunch of Bimmers. Could use some Ford Capris, though :P |
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8 Feb 2008, 11:39 (Ref:2123993) | #33 | |
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Tubeframe shassi is cheap alternative to touringcar and sportcar.
DTM is enough expensive to have problem in that way |
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8 Feb 2008, 16:48 (Ref:2124231) | #34 | |||
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DTM cars are as divorced from road technology as LMPs. One of the makes use a Honda V8 (you can't get an A4 with a V8 anyway) and the only part that is common with the road car is the roof panel. |
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8 Feb 2008, 17:19 (Ref:2124252) | #35 | ||
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8 Feb 2008, 18:58 (Ref:2124315) | #36 | |||
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8 Feb 2008, 19:09 (Ref:2124320) | #37 | ||
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9 Feb 2008, 05:06 (Ref:2124666) | #38 | ||||
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Remember also that the DTM is a descendant of the DRM, which started out as a touring car based series but evolved into Group 5 and by its end was a sprint race Sportscar series allowing the likes of the Porsche 956 Quote:
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"The Great Race" 22 November 1960 - 21 July 1999 |
9 Feb 2008, 06:32 (Ref:2124688) | #39 | ||
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Those two series should probably switch names... Last edited by stedevil; 9 Feb 2008 at 06:35. |
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9 Feb 2008, 12:54 (Ref:2124880) | #40 | ||
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9 Feb 2008, 22:24 (Ref:2125190) | #41 | |||
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11 Feb 2008, 01:13 (Ref:2126148) | #42 | |||
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Supertouring Forever and Ever... |
11 Feb 2008, 04:23 (Ref:2126200) | #43 | |||
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12 Feb 2008, 06:18 (Ref:2126981) | #44 | ||
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DTM however will never be apart of it, at least not unless it starts to return to it's original format of the early 1990ies. |
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12 Feb 2008, 09:23 (Ref:2127040) | #45 | ||
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The list of countries is quite nice, although not every championship is completely or even dominantly S2000. In Italy, Portugal and Germany to count the number of S2000-cars you barely have to use your second hand. In Russia there are a bit more, about 10 I thought. In Finland a lot of cars have been given a lot of dispensations to fall in the S2000-class, with turbo's and completely different weights. That leaves Sweden, Danmark and he UK as proper S2000-championship. I'm not sure about the Baltic championship.
So there is a lot more ground to gain. I think a good step would be that it's easier to get a car homologated. The current deal between the Swedes and the Brits inwitch they automatically homologate cars witch have been homologated in the other country. Offcourse national autorithies should be carefull not to be to liberal considering proposals of their own countrie, it would lead to chaos, but in general this maybe should spread more over Europe. |
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12 Feb 2008, 12:55 (Ref:2127169) | #46 | ||
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Maybe it's time for DTM to rethink the whole used-car business. If they are not able to maintain a twenty car field, even with ride-buyers and two year old cars, they should really either think about radical cost cutting new regulations or about introducing a second privateer friendly class of cars. The used cars are already like a 2nd division, why not going on step further?
How about this: - 2 Divisions, racing together. - Div1: Current DTM cars and regs, four or five new cars from both manufactuers, old cars can be sold to privateers, but no monetary support from Audi and Mercedes and no weight breaks. - Div2: Cheaper tubeframe cars, no (or limited) manufacturer involvement, maybe spec chassis, with mfg specific body and engine. Something like this: http://www.rileytech.com/PDFs/Riley_GT_Handout.pdf I'm sure Riley could also fit four-door silouettes on their GT-chassis and with the current exchange rate, these cars aren't much more expensive than Super2000, if at all. Pratt and Miller have a Pontiac G6 (same platform as Opel Vectra IIRC) chassis and there are some other manufacturers of such chassis. Single class Touring car racing has only been a trend of the last 20 years, maybe they should look back at what worked in the past? |
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12 Feb 2008, 18:02 (Ref:2127326) | #47 | ||
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By using a single make or very tight technical regs a tubeframe car can be relative cheap (see V8Star, NASCAR). A 800 bhp NASCAR Cup car costs around $125,000-$150,000. Why has a DTM car 4 or 5 times more expensiver to be? |
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12 Feb 2008, 18:41 (Ref:2127355) | #48 | ||
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Speed-King,say it to Aufrecht and Co...As for me,it's a great idea!
I think,american cars with their middle-20 century technologes are even too expensive. European Silhouettes are safer too.So its a normal cost for a modern safe powerful racing car. Team bosses have no rights to economize on pilots' lives.That is why i'm fond of DTM,not american oval races. |
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12 Feb 2008, 20:48 (Ref:2127443) | #49 | |
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I am not convinced a DTM car is much safer as a NASCAR Cup car.
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12 Feb 2008, 21:23 (Ref:2127480) | #50 | ||
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Why do we need a new set of tech regs that will cause even more incompatable gear when there's already a functioning world formula that has plenty of makes and is used by many championships?
Super 2000 is working, it's a nice set of technical regulations as it features normal cars but accomodates large family/executive cars like the Vectra and 3-Series as well as diesels and ethanol, has costs under control and produces good racing. Really, there's no need to look for a new solution. It's like having the key in your pocket but proceeding to pick the lock. |
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